[gentoo-dev] Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[gentoo-dev] Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Robin H. Johnson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1369 bytes --]

For projects where the upstream has vanished off the face of the planet,
and the project was reasonably obscure, but the code works fine still, 
there's problems with either the requirements of HOMEPAGE or the repoman
check.

From PMS:
\item[HOMEPAGE] The URI or URIs for a package's homepage, including
protocols. May be defined by an eclass. See section~\ref{dependencies}
for full syntax.

Devmanual:
HOMEPAGE: Package's homepage. If you are unable to locate an official
one, try to provide a link to freshmeat.net  or a similar package
tracking site.  Never refer to a variable name in the string; include
only raw text. 

As Infra, I suggested that zero or more valid URLs should be present in
the bug where the question was raised.

However repoman doesn't like an empty HOMEPAGE variable:

HOMEPAGE.missing              1
     app-mobilephone/smssend/smssend-3.4.ebuild

Either we need special cases to declare that it no longer has a
homepage, or we need to allow the empty HOMEPAGE.

I'm in favour of allowing the variable to empty, because I'm a lazy
upstream, and I haven't even made a basic webpage for some of my
projects (diradm, localshell, readahead-list, etc).

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux Developer & Infra Guy
E-Mail     : robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP   : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED  F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 329 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Dawid Węgliński]

On Sunday 05 of October 2008 12:44:20 Robin H. Johnson wrote:

> I'm in favour of allowing the variable to empty, because I'm a lazy
> upstream, and I haven't even made a basic webpage for some of my
> projects (diradm, localshell, readahead-list, etc).

lol

+1 for allowing empty $HOMEPAGE

[gentoo-dev] Re: Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Ryan Hill]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1696 bytes --]

On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 03:44:20 -0700
"Robin H. Johnson" <robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote:

> For projects where the upstream has vanished off the face of the
> planet, and the project was reasonably obscure, but the code works
> fine still, there's problems with either the requirements of HOMEPAGE
> or the repoman check.
> 
> From PMS:
> \item[HOMEPAGE] The URI or URIs for a package's homepage, including
> protocols. May be defined by an eclass. See section~\ref{dependencies}
> for full syntax.
> 
> Devmanual:
> HOMEPAGE: Package's homepage. If you are unable to locate an official
> one, try to provide a link to freshmeat.net  or a similar package
> tracking site.  Never refer to a variable name in the string; include
> only raw text. 
> 
> As Infra, I suggested that zero or more valid URLs should be present
> in the bug where the question was raised.
> 
> However repoman doesn't like an empty HOMEPAGE variable:
> 
> HOMEPAGE.missing              1
>      app-mobilephone/smssend/smssend-3.4.ebuild
> 
> Either we need special cases to declare that it no longer has a
> homepage, or we need to allow the empty HOMEPAGE.
> 
> I'm in favour of allowing the variable to empty, because I'm a lazy
> upstream, and I haven't even made a basic webpage for some of my
> projects (diradm, localshell, readahead-list, etc).

I'd rather see "unknown" or something that implies "I looked, no luck"
rather than "I forgot to fill this in".


-- 
gcc-porting,                                      by design, by neglect
treecleaner,                              for a fact or just for effect
wxwidgets @ gentoo     EFFD 380E 047A 4B51 D2BD C64F 8AA8 8346 F9A4 0662

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Philip Webb]

081005 Ryan Hill wrote:
> 5 Oct 2008 "Robin H. Johnson" <robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> For projects where the upstream has vanished off the face of the planet
>> but ... the code works fine still, there's problems
>> with either the requirements of HOMEPAGE or the repoman check.
>> Either we need special cases to declare it no longer has a homepage
>> or we need to allow the empty HOMEPAGE.
> I'd rather see "unknown" or something that implies "I looked, no luck"
> rather than "I forgot to fill this in".

As a user who sometimes checks the upstream site for further info,
I strongly support eg 'Unknown' or 'No support site can be found'.
Leaving it blank is ambiguous & might even encourage a buzy dev
not to bother trying to find a changed upstream site.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-dev] Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 245 bytes --]

On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 03:44:20 -0700
"Robin H. Johnson" <robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Either we need special cases to declare that it no longer has a
> homepage, or we need to allow the empty HOMEPAGE.

HOMEPAGE="( )"

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Thilo Bangert]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 343 bytes --]

Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com> said:
> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 03:44:20 -0700
>
> "Robin H. Johnson" <robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > Either we need special cases to declare that it no longer has a
> > homepage, or we need to allow the empty HOMEPAGE.
>
> HOMEPAGE="( )"

HOMEPAGE="http://this-package-has-no-homepage.gentoo.org/"

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Alec Warner]

On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Thilo Bangert <bangert@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com> said:
>> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 03:44:20 -0700
>>
>> "Robin H. Johnson" <robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> > Either we need special cases to declare that it no longer has a
>> > homepage, or we need to allow the empty HOMEPAGE.
>>
>> HOMEPAGE="( )"
>
> HOMEPAGE="http://this-package-has-no-homepage.gentoo.org/"
>

That would impose needless lookups on subdomains of gentoo.org for
clients trying to load the homepage.

HOMEPAGE="UNKNOWN" seems to work fine and keeps logic fairly simple:

if HOMEPAGE != "UNKNOWN"
  do_something_with_HOMEPAGE
...

The metadata API could even wrap this functionality such that packages
with no homepages could return nothing (not even UNKNOWN) or throw
some kind of error.

The only reason I would prefer UNKNOWN to Ciaran's suggestion is that
HOMEPAGE="( )" is not obvious to the majority of people (it basically
looks like a developer mis-pasted or had some other accident).

-Alec

Re: [gentoo-dev] Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Robin H. Johnson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1303 bytes --]

On Sun, Oct 05, 2008 at 07:52:48PM -0700, Alec Warner wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Thilo Bangert <bangert@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com> said:
> >> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 03:44:20 -0700
> >>
> >> "Robin H. Johnson" <robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >> > Either we need special cases to declare that it no longer has a
> >> > homepage, or we need to allow the empty HOMEPAGE.
> >>
> >> HOMEPAGE="( )"
> >
> > HOMEPAGE="http://this-package-has-no-homepage.gentoo.org/"
> >
> That would impose needless lookups on subdomains of gentoo.org for
> clients trying to load the homepage.
http://gentoo.org/package-has-no-homepage/ then.

> HOMEPAGE="UNKNOWN" seems to work fine and keeps logic fairly simple:
> if HOMEPAGE != "UNKNOWN"
>   do_something_with_HOMEPAGE
> ...
My reason to support an empty HOMEPAGE variable is that the only
existing code that needs changing is repoman. If we change to have some
special value that isn't a URL, then all existing code (esp code that
doesn't use the Portage APIs) needs to be changed.

HOMEPAGE="" # with some comment explaining why

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux Developer & Infra Guy
E-Mail     : robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP   : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED  F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 329 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Ulrich Mueller]

>>>>> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, Robin H Johnson wrote:

>> > HOMEPAGE="http://this-package-has-no-homepage.gentoo.org/"
>> That would impose needless lookups on subdomains of gentoo.org for
>> clients trying to load the homepage.
> http://gentoo.org/package-has-no-homepage/ then.

Couldn't a page be created at this URL, with a notice that the package
has no real homepage?

Ulrich

Re: [gentoo-dev] Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Josh Saddler]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1007 bytes --]

Ulrich Mueller wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, Robin H Johnson wrote:
> 
>>>> HOMEPAGE="http://this-package-has-no-homepage.gentoo.org/"
>>> That would impose needless lookups on subdomains of gentoo.org for
>>> clients trying to load the homepage.
>> http://gentoo.org/package-has-no-homepage/ then.
> 
> Couldn't a page be created at this URL, with a notice that the package
> has no real homepage?
> 
> Ulrich
> 

I think that'd take too much time to create and maintain that sort of
thing, especially once old packages are finally removed from the tree.

Why not just stick in a message that says "This package has no
homepage"? Or "none"? Is there any reason why that couldn't go into the
HOMEPAGE="" variable? Will it break QA tools and other utilities?

Sure, it'd be nice if there was a homepage, but putting one on
gentoo.org implies that we do code fixes and other work, not just
hosting the tarballs. Do we really want to *be* upstream for all our
orphaned packages?


[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Hans de Graaff]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1146 bytes --]

On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 23:38 -0700, Josh Saddler wrote:
> Ulrich Mueller wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, Robin H Johnson wrote:
> > 
> >>>> HOMEPAGE="http://this-package-has-no-homepage.gentoo.org/"
> >>> That would impose needless lookups on subdomains of gentoo.org for
> >>> clients trying to load the homepage.
> >> http://gentoo.org/package-has-no-homepage/ then.
> > 
> > Couldn't a page be created at this URL, with a notice that the package
> > has no real homepage?

> 
> I think that'd take too much time to create and maintain that sort of
> thing, especially once old packages are finally removed from the tree.

I think the suggestion is to have one generic homepage for all packages
without one, not a Gentoo-specific homepage for each project.

> Why not just stick in a message that says "This package has no
> homepage"? Or "none"? Is there any reason why that couldn't go into the
> HOMEPAGE="" variable? Will it break QA tools and other utilities?

I guess there are a bunch of tools out there that expect a URL in
HOMEPAGE, so providing one will not raise any potential
incompatibilities.

Hans

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Jeroen Roovers]

On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 08:49:04 +0200
Hans de Graaff <graaff@gentoo.org> wrote:

> I think the suggestion is to have one generic homepage for all
> packages without one, not a Gentoo-specific homepage for each project.

+1

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/abandoned/

Put that in all ebuilds for packages with no homes to go to. Then, do
something very smart where the page automatically assembles a list
of those packages, and explains how they have been taken under Gentoo's
developers' wings. :)

We could perhaps do something similar for no-herd in metadata.xml...
make herds.xml actually list the no-herd herd with some kind of
explanation...


Kind regards,
     JeR

[gentoo-dev] Re: Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

Jeroen Roovers <jer@gentoo.org> writes:

> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/abandoned/

What about www.unmaintained-free-software.org? Possibly opening a page?

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò
http://blog.flameeyes.eu/

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Jeroen Roovers]

On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:22:14 +0200
flameeyes@gmail.com (Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò) wrote:

> Jeroen Roovers <jer@gentoo.org> writes:
> 
> > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/abandoned/
> 
> What about www.unmaintained-free-software.org? Possibly opening a
> page?

There are two reasons against that I can think:
1) it isn't under our control.
2) related to (1), we cannot form a URL local to that site that
incorporates <cat>/<pkg>.

A solution like rbu suggested, pointing to packages.g.o, would be
preferable over an external site. Of course we could then liaise with
www.unmaintained-free-software.org and post a link on packages.g.o to
their site if HOMEPAGE is a reference to packages.g.o itself. :)


Kind regards,
     JeR

[gentoo-dev] Re: Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Duncan]

"Alec Warner" <antarus@gentoo.org> posted
b41005390810051952i93eafb0r5a0ca7e31a34574c@mail.gmail.com, excerpted
below, on  Sun, 05 Oct 2008 19:52:48 -0700:

> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Thilo Bangert <bangert@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> HOMEPAGE="http://this-package-has-no-homepage.gentoo.org/"
>>
> That would impose needless lookups on subdomains of gentoo.org for
> clients trying to load the homepage.

I like Thilo's suggestion -- modified a bit and with the caveat that such 
a page is actually created, with some generic details explaining that no 
other homepage could be found and how Gentoo handles such cases (a link 
to the DMCA/copyright notification page may be helpful as a CYA, this 
being written assuming Gentoo has one, I've not checked but if we don't 
it could save a LOT of trouble if someone makes a mistake...), and 
encouraging anyone who comes across a homepage for such a package to bug 
it.

The modification bit would be to make it a new page on an existing 
subdomain.  Something like this:  http://www.gentoo.org/no-homepage.xml

It could be made per-project or the like, too, but that makes it more 
difficult to auto-detect, for anyone/anything that desires to.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

Re: [gentoo-dev] Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Robert Buchholz]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 817 bytes --]

On Sunday 05 October 2008, Thilo Bangert wrote:
> Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com> said:
> > On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 03:44:20 -0700
> >
> > "Robin H. Johnson" <robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > Either we need special cases to declare that it no longer has a
> > > homepage, or we need to allow the empty HOMEPAGE.
> >
> > HOMEPAGE="( )"
>
> HOMEPAGE="http://this-package-has-no-homepage.gentoo.org/"

Why not use our package site for this, i.e.
HOMEPAGE="http://packages.gentoo.org/package/${CAT}/${PN}"

i.e. for this particular use case, 
http://packages.gentoo.org/package/app-mobilephone/smssend

The site contains a link to ChangeLog, description, current version, 
forums and bugs. I would suggest it is the most usable homepage a user 
can expect if no other exists.


Robert

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 835 bytes --]

[gentoo-dev] Re: Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Steve Long]

Robert Buchholz wrote:

> On Sunday 05 October 2008, Thilo Bangert wrote:
>> Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com> said:
>> > On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 03:44:20 -0700
>> >
>> > "Robin H. Johnson" <robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> > > Either we need special cases to declare that it no longer has a
>> > > homepage, or we need to allow the empty HOMEPAGE.
>> >
>> > HOMEPAGE="( )"
>>
>> HOMEPAGE="http://this-package-has-no-homepage.gentoo.org/"
> 
> Why not use our package site for this, i.e.
> HOMEPAGE="http://packages.gentoo.org/package/${CAT}/${PN}"
> 
> i.e. for this particular use case,
> http://packages.gentoo.org/package/app-mobilephone/smssend
> 
> The site contains a link to ChangeLog, description, current version,
> forums and bugs. I would suggest it is the most usable homepage a user
> can expect if no other exists.
> 
++ This makes the most sense; it's simple and it enables users to interact
with the appropriate channels to get support, or file bugs and patches.

If a notice is needed, the website can be amended to state explicitly that
upstream is dead (if the homepage points to self.)

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Brian Harring]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2260 bytes --]

On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 12:46:24PM +0100, Steve Long wrote:
> Robert Buchholz wrote:
> 
> > On Sunday 05 October 2008, Thilo Bangert wrote:
> >> Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com> said:
> >> > On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 03:44:20 -0700
> >> >
> >> > "Robin H. Johnson" <robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >> > > Either we need special cases to declare that it no longer has a
> >> > > homepage, or we need to allow the empty HOMEPAGE.
> >> >
> >> > HOMEPAGE="( )"
> >>
> >> HOMEPAGE="http://this-package-has-no-homepage.gentoo.org/"
> > 
> > Why not use our package site for this, i.e.
> > HOMEPAGE="http://packages.gentoo.org/package/${CAT}/${PN}"
> > 
> > i.e. for this particular use case,
> > http://packages.gentoo.org/package/app-mobilephone/smssend
> > 
> > The site contains a link to ChangeLog, description, current version,
> > forums and bugs. I would suggest it is the most usable homepage a user
> > can expect if no other exists.
> > 
> ++ This makes the most sense; it's simple and it enables users to interact
> with the appropriate channels to get support, or file bugs and patches.
> 
> If a notice is needed, the website can be amended to state explicitly that
> upstream is dead (if the homepage points to self.)

Use a constant of some sort rather then having the ebuild hardcode the 
fallback- this shifts the fallback upto the PM (code rather then data 
it operates on) allowing far more flexibility.

An example for why this is a better approach would be if I get really 
really bored some afternoon (or exceedingly drunk) and try to match 
the package back to a freshmeat url when the homepage is 
unknown/unset; using a constant, I can focus on that fun task.  
If the fallback url is hardcoded into the ebuild (data), I wind 
up having to know of the url scheme for packages.gentoo.org (both 
past and present) to be able to detect if the homagepage is 
'unset'; it's both buggy and a pita to try that route.

Use a constant of some sort please, it's way saner from a data format 
standpoint.

And no, using a packages.gentoo.org is not constant since the url 
namespace can potentially change someday, let alone the idiocy of 
having to regex it just to discern 'unset' ;)

~brian

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]

[gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Steve Long]

Brian Harring wrote:

> Steve Long wrote:
>> Robert Buchholz wrote:
>> >> Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com> said:
>> >> > "Robin H. Johnson" <robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> >> > > Either we need special cases to declare that it no longer has a
>> >> > > homepage, or we need to allow the empty HOMEPAGE.

>> >> > HOMEPAGE="( )"
>> >> HOMEPAGE="http://this-package-has-no-homepage.gentoo.org/"
>> > Why not use our package site for this, i.e.
>> > HOMEPAGE="http://packages.gentoo.org/package/${CAT}/${PN}"

>> ++ This makes the most sense; it's simple and it enables users to
>> interact with the appropriate channels to get support, or file bugs and
>> patches.
>> 
>> If a notice is needed, the website can be amended to state explicitly
>> that upstream is dead (if the homepage points to self.)
> 
> Use a constant of some sort rather then having the ebuild hardcode the
> fallback- this shifts the fallback upto the PM (code rather then data
> it operates on) allowing far more flexibility.
>
Sure, so long as the end-user always sees:
"$GENTOO_PKG_URL/package/$CATEGORY/$PN" (or whatever the current schema is)
in the cli, it doesn't matter. The argument would be for someone reading an
ebuild, but I don't think that really matters, as by that time they'd have
got used to seeing the packages url, and it's a one-line comment in the
example file/docs to explain it.

If UNKNOWN or some other non-empty constant is chosen, it's a simple bug to
spot and fix for any externals that don't display it correctly. Have to say
I'd prefer simply allowing empty string in the tree, though. No i18n issue
and it's very well-understood/defined, and seems cleaner (less cruft too.)
Perhaps repoman could allow an empty homepage, but not an unset one?
 
> An example for why this is a better approach would be if I get really
> really bored some afternoon (or exceedingly drunk) and try to match
> the package back to a freshmeat url when the homepage is
> unknown/unset; using a constant, I can focus on that fun task.

That sounds more like a script-task to me. (plus it doesn't matter how
wasted you are;)

> Use a constant of some sort please, it's way saner from a data format
> standpoint.
>
Agreed.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Peter Volkov]

В Пнд, 06/10/2008 в 15:59 +0200, Robert Buchholz пишет:
> On Sunday 05 October 2008, Thilo Bangert wrote:
> > HOMEPAGE="http://this-package-has-no-homepage.gentoo.org/"
> 
> Why not use our package site for this, i.e.
> HOMEPAGE="http://packages.gentoo.org/package/${CAT}/${PN}"

This is not homepage. HOMEPAGE should point to "package dependent
information" or in other words to upstream. Then why point to some site
which has nothing to do with upstream?

Same stands to existent or nonexistent link on gentoo.org or any other
domain. This is even worth as this solution also makes users to open
another page which just tell them that homepage does not exist...

So I think if HOMEPAGE does not exist then it's better either put some
constant there or better make it empty. If we wish, for packages with
empty HOMEPAGE we can teach tools like emerge -s or eix to show "Home
page unknown" or "Homepage does not exist". Simple and clear, what else
do we need? :)

-- 
Peter.

[gentoo-dev] Re: Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

[Steve Long]

Peter Volkov wrote:

> Robert Buchholz ?????:
>> Thilo Bangert wrote:
>> > HOMEPAGE="http://this-package-has-no-homepage.gentoo.org/"
>> 
>> Why not use our package site for this, i.e.
>> HOMEPAGE="http://packages.gentoo.org/package/${CAT}/${PN}"
> 
> This is not homepage. HOMEPAGE should point to "package dependent
> information" or in other words to upstream.
Er it is package-specific, and this is for where there is no upstream.

> Same stands to existent or nonexistent link on gentoo.org or any other
> domain. This is even worth as this solution also makes users to open
> another page which just tell them that homepage does not exist...
>
No, the packages site links to a forum search (I'd personally make that
a 'site:forums.gentoo.org' google search across the board, since it's so
much handier, and get some adsense bucks while you're there;) and a
bugzilla search, as well as giving information about all the available
versions in the tree. You should check it out ;p
 
> So I think if HOMEPAGE does not exist then it's better either put some
> constant there or better make it empty. If we wish, for packages with
> empty HOMEPAGE we can teach tools like emerge -s or eix to show "Home
> page unknown" or "Homepage does not exist". Simple and clear, what else
> do we need? :)
> 
An easy way for Gentoo users to contact other people using the software;
given that it's available on Gentoo, and officially dead as far as Gentoo
is aware, having the cli interface display that url (however formulated) is
a plus in support terms, and maybe one day getting the package resurrected.
A gui wrapper like himerge would display the link as clickable, as would a
suitably configured xterm.

So while I agree the empty value in the ebuild is the way to go, I'd
personally like it a lot if Portage at least displayed a useful url (and
the website was ok with it.) If you're going that far for the official
mangler and the site, it seems like something to mandate/specify (I
really /don't/ want to file that bug;)

Is there at least consensus that the above formulation wrt user-display, and
zero-length, would be useful?

(Leaving aside concerns over backward-compatibility/EAPI.)