From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8E8B13827E for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 06:22:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 85B97E0C0D; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 06:22:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8CB9EE0A64 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 06:22:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix, from userid 2127) id D879933F473; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 06:22:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D18DE33F45E for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 06:22:41 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 06:22:41 +0000 (UTC) From: "Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto" To: gentoo-dev Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] openrc 0.12 - netifrc/newnet mix-up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20131201102015.GA1219@egeo> <20131202202845.GA8574@linux1> <529CF973.2020008@gentoo.org> <529CFAA1.7080608@gentoo.org> <20131203211130.GA31972@linux1> <52A2B788.3040409@gentoo.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LNX 1167 2008-08-23) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Archives-Salt: cd2dd421-a2e5-4f94-94ee-419998a6b7bb X-Archives-Hash: 70cc7514d51a50e862e71ecb62e13c74 On Sat, 7 Dec 2013, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina > wrote: >> Honestly, I'm not really sure why anyone would want to make stage3 less >> functional than it already is but honestly net isn't something I'm ready >> to give up just yet. > > It isn't about making the stage3 less functional, but about giving the > user a choice. We don't stick a kernel in stage3, despite the fact > that everybody needs one. We don't stick an MTA in the stage3 despite > the fact that one of those is pretty hard to live without. > > Now that Gentoo apparently offers a wide selection of network > managers, perhaps it makes sense to have the user pick which one they > want to use. > > IMHO the purpose of @system and the stage3 is to solve the circular > dependency problem inherent in bootstrapping. It really shouldn't > contain anything beyond this. By all means have an @useful-utils set > or some kind of profile that auto-installs a list of packages like > openssh, vim, and so on. However, these are not required to bootstrap > a system and I'm not sure why we should be forcing them into the > @system set as a result. I disagree with you about this - stage3 and @system are not the same. The purpose of a stage3 is to provide the minimum "sane" environment to do an install. We provide some packages because of "convenience". So even though someone might not want to connect remotely, there's no valid reason to drop openssh from a stage3. Just like we'll keep providing nano and less in the stages - they may not be needed, but it makes sense to provide them. > Another option would be to have things installed in the stage3 that > are not part of the @system set, so that they would be depcleaned at a > later date. I'm not a big fan of that, however, mainly because it > could be a curve-ball for somebody to deal with after they think > they've gotten everything working. I think users will have a better > understanding of how their system is set up if they put things there > than if things start out there but get yanked out from under them. There's an open bug about this - https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393445 Some of the previous comments are based with this bug in mind.