From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD8A91382C5 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2018 01:19:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D5317E09DA; Tue, 27 Mar 2018 01:19:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-io0-x243.google.com (mail-io0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76553E0976 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2018 01:19:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-io0-x243.google.com with SMTP id 141so25505169iou.12 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2018 18:19:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Eg2OgTm3NnGeemCI7pHhSkdS8ZYnVlb5ZnUCm4YK5jI=; b=QYTayefYZaVRfnq7/EjFOTaF7Q7Dj49483vVZBdMVI2E5ktLk76Z+1XXxE++wiJoPp Bn4vG20pOYvmZzOfnxVt0hxg0bZuIdqHC+oz42FsF43FesC6ek0Kqm20VDRHUc290TDI CgPiKCVwKASf4cTFWd0m/jAd4+67qK3/Wb9WcxdWSO4WAp+iyR5d80jO1I1gmKl09EqG NcSt1MNVucoihlMP5H1QQP+Tx6JaThwIK6Tvmq/EbCzBNq6OVI+fYtNMOYA0p8N5Itdx Yuyk+QA4fY+0Yrxjmn4TiwF8V8wsGSME00pHelHE8QfamSn3aoLI4Q7IiupUbmpEfU9I 9IVw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Eg2OgTm3NnGeemCI7pHhSkdS8ZYnVlb5ZnUCm4YK5jI=; b=AS8TVmk6+9DWtunYTGZ1sqxh/FkIiL1zFixPRmfah63SXuTCt7FN6SxPkI81Z1T89O KMVbkER4glN017lW5sVf7JqLFUCw3vOKiYPjVwQABpWOs04/nRfh2bwG54Xu6hSwjJsQ fniYb4PQzJ99B/VlnDVQWVY6m/w0PF929NzwSLsGzVm9LsnIsJI4rBfPyYSDuf5tvqPX K4Rt2KYk/zUjversB/1WDt4XLOyTrPaRO3gtH+0gkFKDCKpD847tlwDb2GVL50WdZUTI 085KWCe2GxY0+g5KF5yBr21ddalYXSG+6JZ1ZfOcTnr7lvQdHZbOgl76Oe0qAGvBssda OXvg== X-Gm-Message-State: AElRT7G8R76Jr+JaePlNSuDaOt73LMIX6GI9+Afm4CKV4RcyoNULYM8Z vnAdceFmhsKahwo9PiHXyB9h2+cT X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4/mUCF3eCMdTX7uDIMg92Tq9QODVssqMcdlHt3PMDq5LEEb6azZEjPiMzBhsIhQBYtFZuUnYQ== X-Received: by 10.107.174.102 with SMTP id x99mr14804639ioe.18.1522113590396; Mon, 26 Mar 2018 18:19:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.88.3] ([98.4.89.247]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v67-v6sm173657itg.26.2018.03.26.18.19.49 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 26 Mar 2018 18:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <4aab96fa-0edb-6a28-791e-28e2103f2a30@gentoo.org> <0818a5b0-cc1e-403f-6c08-1285999de30f@gentoo.org> <20180320160316.GA5785@whubbs1.gaikai.biz> <87605qs3pi.fsf@gentoo.org> From: kuzetsa Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 21:19:48 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 2ce56ca8-13a7-4033-8967-bd1f482c63b5 X-Archives-Hash: bfcc9dbef3f932e27f99596be5291cf7 On 03/20/2018 08:08 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:54 PM, Benda Xu wrote: >> William Hubbs writes: >> >>> I do feel that this decision reflects badly on us as a community and >>> should be reversed immediately. The proper way to deal with people who >>> have bad behavior is to deal with them individually and not put a >>> restriction on the community that is not necessary. >> >> I agree with William. Dealing with individuals makes more sense. >> >> It boils down to an attitude of assuming outsiders are good (blacklist >> to ML) or bad (whitelist to ML) by default. > > Actually, I think it is more of a technical constraint. It is > basically impossible to blacklist somebody on a mailing list, since > all they need to do is roll up a new email address. > > I can think of various arguments for whitelisting or not whitelisting, > but it seems silly to blacklist. > require active stewardship (moderation, blacklisting, etc.) entry barriers to participation (default deny / require whitelist) if there are limitations on free speech, someone has to bear the burden. for gentoo to have list moderation (blacklist approach) which isn't dysfunctional, the main barrier to resources will be the human resources end of things, not technical constraints. The tools themselves are easy enough to use, but people who are willing and able to use them, and with a clear guideline for how it needs done is a comrel issue which the foundation needs to sort out.