* [gentoo-dev] Empty project: Desktop @ 2016-08-06 8:31 Pacho Ramos 2016-08-06 14:29 ` NP-Hardass 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Pacho Ramos @ 2016-08-06 8:31 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev Now https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Desktop Well, it seems that it's only "containing" other subprojects... but I am unsure if we really need it. Anyway, he is now empty ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Empty project: Desktop 2016-08-06 8:31 [gentoo-dev] Empty project: Desktop Pacho Ramos @ 2016-08-06 14:29 ` NP-Hardass 2016-08-06 15:46 ` james 2016-08-07 10:34 ` Pacho Ramos 0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: NP-Hardass @ 2016-08-06 14:29 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 601 bytes --] On 08/06/2016 04:31 AM, Pacho Ramos wrote: > Now https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Desktop > > Well, it seems that it's only "containing" other subprojects... but I > am unsure if we really need it. Anyway, he is now empty > > > I think it makes sense to keep desktop environments in a logical grouping. There isn't a need for an overarching control structure right now, but if there needs to be coordination of efforts, I think keeping it in its current structure allows that to happen more easily than if we didn't have all the DEs in a project together. -- NP-Hardass [-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 819 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Empty project: Desktop 2016-08-06 14:29 ` NP-Hardass @ 2016-08-06 15:46 ` james 2016-08-06 16:07 ` Raymond Jennings 2016-08-07 10:34 ` Pacho Ramos 1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: james @ 2016-08-06 15:46 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev On 08/06/2016 09:29 AM, NP-Hardass wrote: > On 08/06/2016 04:31 AM, Pacho Ramos wrote: >> Now https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Desktop >> >> Well, it seems that it's only "containing" other subprojects... but I >> am unsure if we really need it. Anyway, he is now empty >> >> >> > > I think it makes sense to keep desktop environments in a logical > grouping. There isn't a need for an overarching control structure right > now, but if there needs to be coordination of efforts, I think keeping > it in its current structure allows that to happen more easily than if we > didn't have all the DEs in a project together. > +1 James ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Empty project: Desktop 2016-08-06 15:46 ` james @ 2016-08-06 16:07 ` Raymond Jennings 2016-08-07 10:35 ` Pacho Ramos 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Raymond Jennings @ 2016-08-06 16:07 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 821 bytes --] If an empty project has subprojects, I think that violates the definition of empty. On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 8:46 AM, james <garftd@verizon.net> wrote: > On 08/06/2016 09:29 AM, NP-Hardass wrote: > >> On 08/06/2016 04:31 AM, Pacho Ramos wrote: >> >>> Now https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Desktop >>> >>> Well, it seems that it's only "containing" other subprojects... but I >>> am unsure if we really need it. Anyway, he is now empty >>> >>> >>> >>> >> I think it makes sense to keep desktop environments in a logical >> grouping. There isn't a need for an overarching control structure right >> now, but if there needs to be coordination of efforts, I think keeping >> it in its current structure allows that to happen more easily than if we >> didn't have all the DEs in a project together. >> >> > +1 > James > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1603 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Empty project: Desktop 2016-08-06 16:07 ` Raymond Jennings @ 2016-08-07 10:35 ` Pacho Ramos 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Pacho Ramos @ 2016-08-07 10:35 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev El sáb, 06-08-2016 a las 09:07 -0700, Raymond Jennings escribió: > If an empty project has subprojects, I think that violates the > definition of empty. > Empty in the terms of previously having a maintainer taking care of it and now being "maintainer-needed"... I didn't think I would need to explain it so deeply :| ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Empty project: Desktop 2016-08-06 14:29 ` NP-Hardass 2016-08-06 15:46 ` james @ 2016-08-07 10:34 ` Pacho Ramos 2016-08-07 13:07 ` NP-Hardass 1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Pacho Ramos @ 2016-08-07 10:34 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev El sáb, 06-08-2016 a las 10:29 -0400, NP-Hardass escribió: > On 08/06/2016 04:31 AM, Pacho Ramos wrote: > > > > Now https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Desktop > > > > Well, it seems that it's only "containing" other subprojects... but > > I > > am unsure if we really need it. Anyway, he is now empty > > > > > > > > I think it makes sense to keep desktop environments in a logical > grouping. There isn't a need for an overarching control structure > right > now, but if there needs to be coordination of efforts, I think > keeping > it in its current structure allows that to happen more easily than if > we > didn't have all the DEs in a project together. > Well, in the past (when herds existed) that was handled by freedesktop- bugs project... but now it's different: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Freedesktop Anyway, the current desktop project won't either fulfill your suggestion as, instead of being a general alias for all the projects under it (like freedesktop-bugs herd was), it will simply end up with nobody listening as nobody is a member of it :/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Empty project: Desktop 2016-08-07 10:34 ` Pacho Ramos @ 2016-08-07 13:07 ` NP-Hardass 2016-08-07 14:37 ` Pacho Ramos 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: NP-Hardass @ 2016-08-07 13:07 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1310 bytes --] On 08/07/2016 06:34 AM, Pacho Ramos wrote: > El sáb, 06-08-2016 a las 10:29 -0400, NP-Hardass escribió: >> On 08/06/2016 04:31 AM, Pacho Ramos wrote: >>> >>> Now https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Desktop >>> >>> Well, it seems that it's only "containing" other subprojects... but >>> I >>> am unsure if we really need it. Anyway, he is now empty >>> >>> >>> >> >> I think it makes sense to keep desktop environments in a logical >> grouping. There isn't a need for an overarching control structure >> right >> now, but if there needs to be coordination of efforts, I think >> keeping >> it in its current structure allows that to happen more easily than if >> we >> didn't have all the DEs in a project together. >> > > Well, in the past (when herds existed) that was handled by freedesktop- > bugs project... but now it's different: > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Freedesktop > > Anyway, the current desktop project won't either fulfill your > suggestion as, instead of being a general alias for all the projects > under it (like freedesktop-bugs herd was), it will simply end up with > nobody listening as nobody is a member of it :/ > Well, that's easily remedied with an alias for the project that contains all the subprojects, no? -- NP-Hardass [-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 819 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Empty project: Desktop 2016-08-07 13:07 ` NP-Hardass @ 2016-08-07 14:37 ` Pacho Ramos 2016-08-07 15:30 ` [gentoo-dev] " Michael Palimaka ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Pacho Ramos @ 2016-08-07 14:37 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev El dom, 07-08-2016 a las 09:07 -0400, NP-Hardass escribió: > [...] > Well, that's easily remedied with an alias for the project that > contains > all the subprojects, no? > But I don't know if the projects will like to behave in that way... because freedesktop-bugs was behaving exactly in that way and, during the transition, it was agreed to stop using that and simply CC the right projects when needed :/ From my point of view we should simply kill that "Desktop" project as it serves no purpose and CC the relevant projects when needed, as I don't recall many cases of the old freedesktop-bugs behaving in the way you are suggesting (involving *all* desktop related projects in the bug reports). On the other hand it was ending up with most people under the subprojects simply ignoring the bug reports assigned to freedesktop- bugs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* [gentoo-dev] Re: Empty project: Desktop 2016-08-07 14:37 ` Pacho Ramos @ 2016-08-07 15:30 ` Michael Palimaka 2016-08-08 21:42 ` [gentoo-dev] " NP-Hardass 2016-08-09 4:02 ` Jason Zaman 2 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Michael Palimaka @ 2016-08-07 15:30 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev On 08/08/16 00:37, Pacho Ramos wrote: > El dom, 07-08-2016 a las 09:07 -0400, NP-Hardass escribió: >> [...] >> Well, that's easily remedied with an alias for the project that >> contains >> all the subprojects, no? >> > > But I don't know if the projects will like to behave in that way... > because freedesktop-bugs was behaving exactly in that way and, during > the transition, it was agreed to stop using that and simply CC the > right projects when needed :/ > > From my point of view we should simply kill that "Desktop" project as > it serves no purpose and CC the relevant projects when needed, as I > don't recall many cases of the old freedesktop-bugs behaving in the way > you are suggesting (involving *all* desktop related projects in the bug > reports). On the other hand it was ending up with most people under the > subprojects simply ignoring the bug reports assigned to freedesktop- > bugs > > I agree with removing it. Having an empty project doesn't serve any purpose. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Empty project: Desktop 2016-08-07 14:37 ` Pacho Ramos 2016-08-07 15:30 ` [gentoo-dev] " Michael Palimaka @ 2016-08-08 21:42 ` NP-Hardass 2016-08-09 4:02 ` Jason Zaman 2 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: NP-Hardass @ 2016-08-08 21:42 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1188 bytes --] On 08/07/2016 10:37 AM, Pacho Ramos wrote: > El dom, 07-08-2016 a las 09:07 -0400, NP-Hardass escribió: >> [...] >> Well, that's easily remedied with an alias for the project that >> contains >> all the subprojects, no? >> > > But I don't know if the projects will like to behave in that way... > because freedesktop-bugs was behaving exactly in that way and, during > the transition, it was agreed to stop using that and simply CC the > right projects when needed :/ > > From my point of view we should simply kill that "Desktop" project as > it serves no purpose and CC the relevant projects when needed, as I > don't recall many cases of the old freedesktop-bugs behaving in the way > you are suggesting (involving *all* desktop related projects in the bug > reports). On the other hand it was ending up with most people under the > subprojects simply ignoring the bug reports assigned to freedesktop- > bugs > Well, if no other DEs want it, I say go for it. Your description of the old way was before my time working on MATE, I think. Where does that place the DEs going forward? Subprojects of The root node, or something else? -- NP-Hardass [-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 819 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Empty project: Desktop 2016-08-07 14:37 ` Pacho Ramos 2016-08-07 15:30 ` [gentoo-dev] " Michael Palimaka 2016-08-08 21:42 ` [gentoo-dev] " NP-Hardass @ 2016-08-09 4:02 ` Jason Zaman 2016-08-11 10:15 ` Mart Raudsepp 2 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Jason Zaman @ 2016-08-09 4:02 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev On Sun, Aug 07, 2016 at 04:37:23PM +0200, Pacho Ramos wrote: > El dom, 07-08-2016 a las 09:07 -0400, NP-Hardass escribió: > > [...] > > Well, that's easily remedied with an alias for the project that > > contains > > all the subprojects, no? > > > > But I don't know if the projects will like to behave in that way... > because freedesktop-bugs was behaving exactly in that way and, during > the transition, it was agreed to stop using that and simply CC the > right projects when needed :/ > > From my point of view we should simply kill that "Desktop" project as > it serves no purpose and CC the relevant projects when needed, as I > don't recall many cases of the old freedesktop-bugs behaving in the way > you are suggesting (involving *all* desktop related projects in the bug > reports). On the other hand it was ending up with most people under the > subprojects simply ignoring the bug reports assigned to freedesktop- > bugs Removing it is fine. I'm in the freedesktop and Xfce projects and I had no idea this Desktop project even existed. Pretty sure everyone would just ignore anything from/to it anyway. Problems with eg KDE and Xfce are mostly not really related. And the few things that are related are more core components that are under freedesktop (polkit/consolekit etc). In which case, that component is fixed without needing to bother every single other project or we just CC them all if need be. -- Jason ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Empty project: Desktop 2016-08-09 4:02 ` Jason Zaman @ 2016-08-11 10:15 ` Mart Raudsepp 2016-08-11 18:19 ` Pacho Ramos 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Mart Raudsepp @ 2016-08-11 10:15 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev Ühel kenal päeval, T, 09.08.2016 kell 12:02, kirjutas Jason Zaman: > On Sun, Aug 07, 2016 at 04:37:23PM +0200, Pacho Ramos wrote: > > El dom, 07-08-2016 a las 09:07 -0400, NP-Hardass escribió: > > > [...] > > > Well, that's easily remedied with an alias for the project that > > > contains > > > all the subprojects, no? > > > > > > > But I don't know if the projects will like to behave in that way... > > because freedesktop-bugs was behaving exactly in that way and, > > during > > the transition, it was agreed to stop using that and simply CC the > > right projects when needed :/ > > > > From my point of view we should simply kill that "Desktop" project > > as > > it serves no purpose and CC the relevant projects when needed, as I > > don't recall many cases of the old freedesktop-bugs behaving in the > > way > > you are suggesting (involving *all* desktop related projects in the > > bug > > reports). On the other hand it was ending up with most people under > > the > > subprojects simply ignoring the bug reports assigned to > > freedesktop- > > bugs > > Removing it is fine. I'm in the freedesktop and Xfce projects and I > had > no idea this Desktop project even existed. > Pretty sure everyone would just ignore anything from/to it anyway. > Problems with eg KDE and Xfce are mostly not really related. And the > few > things that are related are more core components that are under > freedesktop (polkit/consolekit etc). In which case, that component is > fixed without needing to bother every single other project or we just > CC > them all if need be. It should be kept for the purposes of coordination between different specific desktop projects and the grouping of them it provides as subprojects. However that doesn't mean it should have any packages in the tree that the desktop projects maintains itself personally, instead of one of its subprojects. One of my gentoo plans, when I have time, has been in reviving such desktop-wide coordinations, possibly under the desktop project banner. E.g my started USE=gui and toolkit threads when I had time. Frankly, it would be weird to not have a project that broadly manages all the desktop stuff. We should manage this all better under a broad desktop project that manages documentation, some policies, etc, but doesn't necessarily have any packages that it maintains in tree. If we need a new lead election per GLEP 39, I'm sure we have some volunteers from the subprojects to throw their name in, that are interested in having a good desktop-wide organization going on. Myself included. Mart ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Empty project: Desktop 2016-08-11 10:15 ` Mart Raudsepp @ 2016-08-11 18:19 ` Pacho Ramos 2016-08-13 4:14 ` Raymond Jennings 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Pacho Ramos @ 2016-08-11 18:19 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev El jue, 11-08-2016 a las 13:15 +0300, Mart Raudsepp escribió: > [...] > It should be kept for the purposes of coordination between different > specific desktop projects and the grouping of them it provides as > subprojects. > However that doesn't mean it should have any packages in the tree > that > the desktop projects maintains itself personally, instead of one of > its > subprojects. > > One of my gentoo plans, when I have time, has been in reviving such > desktop-wide coordinations, possibly under the desktop project > banner. > E.g my started USE=gui and toolkit threads when I had time. > > Frankly, it would be weird to not have a project that broadly manages > all the desktop stuff. > We should manage this all better under a broad desktop project that > manages documentation, some policies, etc, but doesn't necessarily > have > any packages that it maintains in tree. > > If we need a new lead election per GLEP 39, I'm sure we have some > volunteers from the subprojects to throw their name in, that are > interested in having a good desktop-wide organization going on. > Myself > included. > > > Mart > Apart of me not understanding why are we reviving this that was already discussed when killing the old freedesktop-bugs herds in favor of the correct project, I don't think it makes sense to keep this concrete dead project for that potential and hypothetical changes that could benefit from it in the far future. Maybe when something of that is finally going to be done, we need that project and, in that case, you will be able of course to create your Project following the standard policy that allows to do that to any developers. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Empty project: Desktop 2016-08-11 18:19 ` Pacho Ramos @ 2016-08-13 4:14 ` Raymond Jennings 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Raymond Jennings @ 2016-08-13 4:14 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1965 bytes --] I think that a superproject can serve as a good rubber-band grouping construct, personlaly On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Pacho Ramos <pacho@gentoo.org> wrote: > El jue, 11-08-2016 a las 13:15 +0300, Mart Raudsepp escribió: > > [...] > > It should be kept for the purposes of coordination between different > > specific desktop projects and the grouping of them it provides as > > subprojects. > > However that doesn't mean it should have any packages in the tree > > that > > the desktop projects maintains itself personally, instead of one of > > its > > subprojects. > > > > One of my gentoo plans, when I have time, has been in reviving such > > desktop-wide coordinations, possibly under the desktop project > > banner. > > E.g my started USE=gui and toolkit threads when I had time. > > > > Frankly, it would be weird to not have a project that broadly manages > > all the desktop stuff. > > We should manage this all better under a broad desktop project that > > manages documentation, some policies, etc, but doesn't necessarily > > have > > any packages that it maintains in tree. > > > > If we need a new lead election per GLEP 39, I'm sure we have some > > volunteers from the subprojects to throw their name in, that are > > interested in having a good desktop-wide organization going on. > > Myself > > included. > > > > > > Mart > > > > Apart of me not understanding why are we reviving this that was already > discussed when killing the old freedesktop-bugs herds in favor of the > correct project, I don't think it makes sense to keep this concrete > dead project for that potential and hypothetical changes that could > benefit from it in the far future. > > Maybe when something of that is finally going to be done, we need that > project and, in that case, you will be able of course to create your > Project following the standard policy that allows to do that to any > developers. > > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2476 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2016-08-13 4:15 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 14+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2016-08-06 8:31 [gentoo-dev] Empty project: Desktop Pacho Ramos 2016-08-06 14:29 ` NP-Hardass 2016-08-06 15:46 ` james 2016-08-06 16:07 ` Raymond Jennings 2016-08-07 10:35 ` Pacho Ramos 2016-08-07 10:34 ` Pacho Ramos 2016-08-07 13:07 ` NP-Hardass 2016-08-07 14:37 ` Pacho Ramos 2016-08-07 15:30 ` [gentoo-dev] " Michael Palimaka 2016-08-08 21:42 ` [gentoo-dev] " NP-Hardass 2016-08-09 4:02 ` Jason Zaman 2016-08-11 10:15 ` Mart Raudsepp 2016-08-11 18:19 ` Pacho Ramos 2016-08-13 4:14 ` Raymond Jennings
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