Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Baselayout-2 progress?

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Baselayout-2 progress?

[Vaeth]

Bernd Steinhauser wrote:
> Duncan schrieb:
> > Bernd Steinhauser <gentoo@bernd-steinhauser.de> posted
> >   
> > > What about the timezone?
> > > Baselayout had a setting for the timezone in /etc/conf.d/clock.
> > > baselayout-2.0.0
> > > + openrc doesn't seem to have that. Not needed?
> > >     
> >
> > Not needed indeed.
> [...]
> Then there should be a note, that this setting is deprecated.

Please observe that the setting from /etc/conf.d/clock is not
only used by baselayout but also by the sys-libs/timezone-data
ebuild: It uses this setting to copy to /etc/timezone
(IIRC the symlink was officially deprecated, because it might point
to a different partition).
So the setting might be deprecated for openrc,
but it is not deprecated for gentoo.

Regards
Martin
-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Baselayout-2 progress?

[Ed W]

Is it dead..?  Is anyone still working on it?

I have had a lot of success using it for linux vservers and in an 
embedded build. Would really hate to see it stall though...?

What are the big picture items still missing?  Seems that it's close to 
becoming a stable upgrade?  I have filed a few minor bugs against it 
(some more to come) - is there anything I can do to help progress 
development further?

Cheers

Ed W
-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Baselayout-2 progress?

[Doug Klima]

Ed W wrote:
> Alon Bar-Lev wrote:
>> Check out OpenRC it is baselayout successor and works great!
>>   
>
> Funnily enough I came across this earlier today for different 
> reasons.  However, I hadn't realised that it was a full baselayout 
> competitor?

baselayout-2 was renamed to openrc when Roy left Gentoo as an official dev.

>
> Does Roy hang out here?  Roy: Is this intended to be a baselayout 
> replacement?  How likely is this to be on-track to become a "gentoo 
> official" baselayout?  Do you (try to) support busybox and vserver 
> environments?
Don't know. Yes. Very. Yes & Yes.
-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Baselayout-2 progress?

[Ed W]

Hi

> baselayout-2 was renamed to openrc when Roy left Gentoo as an official 
> dev.

Answering my own question (for the record). I found some explanation here:
http://lycos.dropcode.net/gregarius/author.php?author=Roy_Marples__uberlord_

>> Does Roy hang out here?  Roy: Is this intended to be a baselayout 
>> replacement?  How likely is this to be on-track to become a "gentoo 
>> official" baselayout?  Do you (try to) support busybox and vserver 
>> environments?
> Don't know. Yes. Very. Yes & Yes.

Excellent - this is exciting to hear

On the other hand since there still isn't a masked ebuild in portage 
(and I seem some notes on my on Roy's site) then I have to assume that 
in fact we are still a good way away from calling it a replacement and 
starting to push it out to users?

Would it not make sense to start to snapshot some builds and push openrc 
out for testing?  (Seems like a gentoo job rather than an upstream is 
the reason I ask here?)

Cheers

Ed W
-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Baselayout-2 progress?

[Roy Marples]

On Friday 29 February 2008 16:15:51 Ed W wrote:
> On the other hand since there still isn't a masked ebuild in portage
> (and I seem some notes on my on Roy's site) then I have to assume that
> in fact we are still a good way away from calling it a replacement and
> starting to push it out to users?

It's actually been very stable and usable for a long time. It's not, and never 
will be a 100% drop in replacement for everything baselayout provides, but 
it's very very compatible.

> Would it not make sense to start to snapshot some builds and push openrc
> out for testing?  (Seems like a gentoo job rather than an upstream is
> the reason I ask here?)

As Doug mentioned earlier, my git repo is available in an ebuild.
Why haven't I done a snapshot or release yet? Well, I have one last feature to 
add basically. That feature is so it can be installed "prefixed" and still 
work perfectly - with the exception of not booting or shutting down the host 
system. I'll be doing this on my NetBSD box next week hopefully.

But bugs are still being found and fixed - although at a slow rate :)

Thanks

Roy
-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: Baselayout-2 progress?

[Duncan]

Roy Marples <roy@marples.name> posted 200802291707.17936.roy@marples.name,
excerpted below, on  Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:07:17 +0000:

> On Friday 29 February 2008 16:15:51 Ed W wrote:
>> On the other hand since there still isn't a masked ebuild in portage
>> (and I seem some notes on my on Roy's site) then I have to assume that
>> in fact we are still a good way away from calling it a replacement and
>> starting to push it out to users?
> 
> It's actually been very stable and usable for a long time. It's not, and
> never will be a 100% drop in replacement for everything baselayout
> provides, but it's very very compatible.

Is direct upgrade from previous baselayout-2.0.0-rcX going to be 
supported?  I was running that for some time and just now added and
upgraded to the via layman version.  There's a blocker, of course, as 
openrc is now providing most of the files that baselayout did.

The problem is that unmerging the old 2.0.0-rcX baselayout in ordered to 
resolve the blockage is SCARY, since it leaves the system basically 
unbootable until the new setup is merged and at least basically 
configured.  There's also the issue of not knowing for sure just what's 
going to still be around in terms of config files and the like, since 
unmerging baselayout isn't exactly an everyday thing.

FWIW, I took the jump anyway, and the etc-update seemed to go reasonably 
well, but I've not rebooted yet...

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Baselayout-2 progress?

[Doug Klima]

Duncan wrote:
> Roy Marples <roy@marples.name> posted 200802291707.17936.roy@marples.name,
> excerpted below, on  Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:07:17 +0000:
> 
>> On Friday 29 February 2008 16:15:51 Ed W wrote:
>>> On the other hand since there still isn't a masked ebuild in portage
>>> (and I seem some notes on my on Roy's site) then I have to assume that
>>> in fact we are still a good way away from calling it a replacement and
>>> starting to push it out to users?
>> It's actually been very stable and usable for a long time. It's not, and
>> never will be a 100% drop in replacement for everything baselayout
>> provides, but it's very very compatible.
> 
> Is direct upgrade from previous baselayout-2.0.0-rcX going to be 
> supported?  I was running that for some time and just now added and
> upgraded to the via layman version.  There's a blocker, of course, as 
> openrc is now providing most of the files that baselayout did.

You just answered your own question. If another package now provides 
files that an existing package provides, they must be blockers. 
Considering baselayout-2.0.0_rcX was a masked version and never 
recommended, it's also not in the direct upgrade path. The proper 
upgrade is what you've detailed out below. Such are the risks when you 
unmask a package and install it on your machine.

> 
> The problem is that unmerging the old 2.0.0-rcX baselayout in ordered to 
> resolve the blockage is SCARY, since it leaves the system basically 
> unbootable until the new setup is merged and at least basically 
> configured.  There's also the issue of not knowing for sure just what's 
> going to still be around in terms of config files and the like, since 
> unmerging baselayout isn't exactly an everyday thing.
> 
> FWIW, I took the jump anyway, and the etc-update seemed to go reasonably 
> well, but I've not rebooted yet...
> 


-- 
Doug Klima <cardoe@gentoo.org>
http://dev.gentoo.org/~cardoe/
-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: Baselayout-2 progress?

[Duncan]

Doug Klima <cardoe@gentoo.org> posted 47C8E29A.2020003@gentoo.org,
excerpted below, on  Fri, 29 Feb 2008 23:59:06 -0500:

>> Is direct upgrade from previous baselayout-2.0.0-rcX going to be
>> supported?  I was running that for some time and just now added and
>> upgraded to the via layman version.  There's a blocker, of course, as
>> openrc is now providing most of the files that baselayout did.
> 
> You just answered your own question. If another package now provides
> files that an existing package provides, they must be blockers.

Thus the "of course"...

> Considering baselayout-2.0.0_rcX was a masked version and never
> recommended, it's also not in the direct upgrade path. The proper
> upgrade is what you've detailed out below. Such are the risks when you
> unmask a package and install it on your machine.

Which is why I'm not particularly complaining, just asking.

Practically speaking, while it's not required by any means, some devs 
choose to acknowledge the symbiotic relationship between pre-release 
testers willing to take that risk and do the work to find and file bugs, 
thus helping to make the general release far less buggy, and the devs who 
depend on such testers for that function.  The testers do a favor for the 
devs with all that early testing and bug filing (sometimes with patches), 
and many devs choose to return it by providing a working upgrade path 
from the pre-releases to the general release.  Among other things, it 
makes for happier testers, who are then likely to be repeat testers, the 
next time an upgrade comes along.

It's also worth mentioning that a call for testers went out, so it's not 
as if those that answered it, particularly if the DID actively look for 
and file bugs as they found them, were doing it entirely of their own 
accord.  Again, it's doing the developer a favor, so it's a nice gesture 
if the developer chooses to return the favor by smoothing the upgrade 
path.  Not something he has to do, but something he /can/ do, to increase 
the chances of folks who already know the process again taking him up on 
the invitation, the next time he needs something tested. =8^)

So anyway, I thought it was worth asking about, in case it had slipped 
his mind or he hadn't thought of it.  No big deal either way, but it'd be 
a nice gesture if it's not too difficult to setup.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Baselayout-2 progress?

[Roy Marles]

On Saturday 01 March 2008 02:08:44 Duncan wrote:
> Is direct upgrade from previous baselayout-2.0.0-rcX going to be
> supported?

Existing configs should work just fine - with the exception of the modules 
config. It's been moved to /etc/conf.d/modules instead of 
the /etc/modules.autoload.d folder. There is no automated migration as 
complex setups would go wrong.

> I was running that for some time and just now added and 
> upgraded to the via layman version.  There's a blocker, of course, as
> openrc is now providing most of the files that baselayout did.
>
> The problem is that unmerging the old 2.0.0-rcX baselayout in ordered to
> resolve the blockage is SCARY, since it leaves the system basically
> unbootable until the new setup is merged and at least basically
> configured.  There's also the issue of not knowing for sure just what's
> going to still be around in terms of config files and the like, since
> unmerging baselayout isn't exactly an everyday thing.
>
> FWIW, I took the jump anyway, and the etc-update seemed to go reasonably
> well, but I've not rebooted yet...

As others pointed out, this is a package manager issue and those blockers are 
there because of this. Not an OpenRC issue as such ;)

Thanks

Roy
-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: Baselayout-2 progress?

[Duncan]

Roy Marles <roy@marples.name> posted 200803011050.50697.roy@marples.name,
excerpted below, on  Sat, 01 Mar 2008 10:50:50 +0000:

> As others pointed out, this is a package manager issue and those
> blockers are there because of this. Not an OpenRC issue as such ;)
> 
> Thanks

... And thank /you/! =8^)

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Baselayout-2 progress?

[Bernd Steinhauser]

Roy Marples schrieb:
> On Friday 29 February 2008 16:15:51 Ed W wrote:
>   
>> On the other hand since there still isn't a masked ebuild in portage
>> (and I seem some notes on my on Roy's site) then I have to assume that
>> in fact we are still a good way away from calling it a replacement and
>> starting to push it out to users?
>>     
>
> It's actually been very stable and usable for a long time. It's not, and never 
> will be a 100% drop in replacement for everything baselayout provides, but 
> it's very very compatible.
What about the timezone?
Baselayout had a setting for the timezone in /etc/conf.d/clock. 
baselayout-2.0.0
+ openrc doesn't seem to have that. Not needed?

Bernd
-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: Baselayout-2 progress?

[Duncan]

Bernd Steinhauser <gentoo@bernd-steinhauser.de> posted
47C9DDA1.2000306@bernd-steinhauser.de, excerpted below, on  Sat, 01 Mar
2008 23:50:09 +0100:

> What about the timezone?
> Baselayout had a setting for the timezone in /etc/conf.d/clock.
> baselayout-2.0.0
> + openrc doesn't seem to have that. Not needed?

Not needed indeed.  The previous setting caused confusion because 
changing it didn't actually change the timezone (this isn't the place for 
the technical details).

Now, the clock config file simply sets local or UTC, while the timezone 
is set using the standard glibc /etc/localtime -> /usr/share/zoneinfo/
<whatever-zone> symlink or the TZ environmental variable (see the tzset 
and hwclock manpages among others).

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Baselayout-2 progress?

[Bernd Steinhauser]

Duncan schrieb:
> Bernd Steinhauser <gentoo@bernd-steinhauser.de> posted
> 47C9DDA1.2000306@bernd-steinhauser.de, excerpted below, on  Sat, 01 Mar
> 2008 23:50:09 +0100:
>
>   
>> What about the timezone?
>> Baselayout had a setting for the timezone in /etc/conf.d/clock.
>> baselayout-2.0.0
>> + openrc doesn't seem to have that. Not needed?
>>     
>
> Not needed indeed.  The previous setting caused confusion because 
> changing it didn't actually change the timezone (this isn't the place for 
> the technical details).
>
> Now, the clock config file simply sets local or UTC, while the timezone 
> is set using the standard glibc /etc/localtime -> /usr/share/zoneinfo/
> <whatever-zone> symlink or the TZ environmental variable (see the tzset 
> and hwclock manpages among others).
>
>   
Then there should be a note, that this setting is deprecated. Currently it
only says:
'If you want to manage /etc/localtime yourself, set this to "".'

If there is a note, that this setting isn't used anymore it won't make 
users,
that still have it set wonder why an etc update wants to remove it.

Bernd
-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list