[gentoo-dev] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[gentoo-dev] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[Hannes Mehnert]

Hi everyone,

I just commited seperate ebuilds for gvim and vim.

emerge vim
    will only install vim

emerge gvim
    will only install gvim

gvim and vim depend on the new vim-core ebuild.
kvim is also available (emerge kvim), currently masked.

So, gvim users will now have to emerge gvim, not vim.

Hannes Mehnert

Gentoo Linux developer

[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-user] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[Laurent]

Congrats !! :)
Great work man :)

On Friday 13 September 2002 11:19, Hannes Mehnert wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I just commited seperate ebuilds for gvim and vim.
>
> emerge vim
>     will only install vim
>
> emerge gvim
>     will only install gvim
>
> gvim and vim depend on the new vim-core ebuild.
> kvim is also available (emerge kvim), currently masked.
>
> So, gvim users will now have to emerge gvim, not vim.
>
> Hannes Mehnert
>
> Gentoo Linux developer
> _______________________________________________
> gentoo-user mailing list
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org
> http://lists.gentoo.org/mailman/listinfo/gentoo-user

-- 
Laurent Sinitambirivoutin
lsinitam@noos.fr

Re: [gentoo-dev] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[Christian Axelsson]

I thought that was the point of having USE-flags? Or am I wrong?

--------------------
On Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:19:17 +0200
Hannes Mehnert <hannes@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> I just commited seperate ebuilds for gvim and vim.
> 
> emerge vim
>     will only install vim
> 
> emerge gvim
>     will only install gvim
> 
> gvim and vim depend on the new vim-core ebuild.
> kvim is also available (emerge kvim), currently masked.
> 
> So, gvim users will now have to emerge gvim, not vim.
> 
> Hannes Mehnert
> 
> Gentoo Linux developer
> _______________________________________________
> gentoo-dev mailing list
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org
> http://lists.gentoo.org/mailman/listinfo/gentoo-dev


--
Christian Axelsson
smiler@lanil.mine.nu

[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-user] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[William Kenworthy]

hmm, so what happens to those of us who have already emerged "vim"?  Do
we unmerge that and emerge the new packages (i.e., updates such as bug
and security fixes will not be done unless we change our systems?)  Is
the old ebuild now an orphan, or can the system handle this
circumstance?

BillK

On Fri, 2002-09-13 at 17:19, Hannes Mehnert wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I just commited seperate ebuilds for gvim and vim.
> 
> emerge vim
>     will only install vim
> 
> emerge gvim
>     will only install gvim
> 
> gvim and vim depend on the new vim-core ebuild.
> kvim is also available (emerge kvim), currently masked.
> 
> So, gvim users will now have to emerge gvim, not vim.
> 
> Hannes Mehnert
> 
> Gentoo Linux developer
> _______________________________________________
> gentoo-user mailing list
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org
> http://lists.gentoo.org/mailman/listinfo/gentoo-user
> 

[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-user] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[Hannes Mehnert]

Hi,

emerge sync
emerge -u world
emerge gvim (if you iwant to use gvim)

will install vim.

On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 07:08:14PM +0800, William Kenworthy wrote:
> hmm, so what happens to those of us who have already emerged "vim"?  Do
> we unmerge that and emerge the new packages (i.e., updates such as bug
> and security fixes will not be done unless we change our systems?)  Is
> the old ebuild now an orphan, or can the system handle this
> circumstance?

Hannes Mehnert
Gentoo Linux developer

Re: [gentoo-dev] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[Hannes Mehnert]

Hi,

On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 12:09:05PM +0200, Christian Axelsson wrote:
> I thought that was the point of having USE-flags? Or am I wrong?

the problem was:
If I emerge kvim, it has to depend on vim (because of vimruntime),
so, if I had X in USE, it would also install gvim.
An emerge kvim would have installed kvim, gvim and vim, but most users
only wanted kvim, no gvim, no vim.

Hannes Mehnert
Gentoo Linux developer

Re: [gentoo-dev] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[Scott Lampert]

On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 11:19:17AM +0200, Hannes Mehnert wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I just commited seperate ebuilds for gvim and vim.
> 
> emerge vim
>     will only install vim
> 
> emerge gvim
>     will only install gvim
> 
> gvim and vim depend on the new vim-core ebuild.
> kvim is also available (emerge kvim), currently masked.
> 
> So, gvim users will now have to emerge gvim, not vim.
> 
> Hannes Mehnert
> 

emerge gvim now seems to require gnome-libs despite any USE settings to
the contrary.  Why exactly does gvim require gnome libs?  It should only
require gtk.  In any event it compiles and runs fine if I take gnome out
of the dependencies.  It would be nice to be able to avoid the bloat of
these desktop environments, especially when they're completely
unnecessary for a package.  I seem to run into this issue more and more
lately.
    -Scott

-- 
Scott Lampert
<scott@lampert.org>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Public Key: http://www.lampert.org/public_key.asc

Re: [gentoo-dev] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[Hannes Mehnert]

Hi,

I accidently commited the wrong gvim ebuild, it is corrected now.

On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 08:41:46AM -0700, Scott Lampert wrote:
> emerge gvim now seems to require gnome-libs despite any USE settings to
> the contrary.  Why exactly does gvim require gnome libs?  It should only
> require gtk.  In any event it compiles and runs fine if I take gnome out
> of the dependencies.  It would be nice to be able to avoid the bloat of
> these desktop environments, especially when they're completely
> unnecessary for a package.  I seem to run into this issue more and more
> lately.

Hannes Mehnert

Gentoo Linux developer

Re: [gentoo-dev] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[Scott Lampert]

On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 08:03:59PM +0200, Hannes Mehnert wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I accidently commited the wrong gvim ebuild, it is corrected now.
> 
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 08:41:46AM -0700, Scott Lampert wrote:
> > emerge gvim now seems to require gnome-libs despite any USE settings to
> > the contrary.  Why exactly does gvim require gnome libs?  It should only
> > require gtk.  In any event it compiles and runs fine if I take gnome out
> > of the dependencies.  It would be nice to be able to avoid the bloat of
> > these desktop environments, especially when they're completely
> > unnecessary for a package.  I seem to run into this issue more and more
> > lately.


Great!  Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh (on rereading what I wrote it
sounded like I was angry).  My favorite part of Gentoo is its ability to
keep the system lean and clean with the whole portage system (like
FreeBSD's ports tree)  I start to get frustrated when it becomes
difficult to manage this and you start needing to edit the ebuilds by
hand!
    -Scott

-- 
Scott Lampert
<scott@lampert.org>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Public Key: http://www.lampert.org/public_key.asc

[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-user] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[Ewan Mac Mahon]

On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Hannes Mehnert wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> I just commited seperate ebuilds for gvim and vim.
> 

I seem to be a lone dissenting voice here, so I'm proably missing 
something, but is this really a good idea? I've always regarded the 
split packaging of vim in other distros as an unfortunate consequence of 
their not being able to handle compile time options. Since one of gentoos 
strengths is that it can this seems an odd decision - what's the advantage 
over using the X and gtk USE settings like before?

Ewan

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-user] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[William Kenworthy]

As well as now there are all these "orphan" installations of vim that
will never be upgraded when "emerge -u world": emerge really needs a
more graceful way of handling this - perhaps a flag saying "fix me" that
is checked when doing a "world"?

BillK

On Sat, 2002-09-14 at 22:10, Ewan Mac Mahon wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Hannes Mehnert wrote:
> 
> > Hi everyone,
> > 
> > I just commited seperate ebuilds for gvim and vim.
> > 
> 
> I seem to be a lone dissenting voice here, so I'm proably missing 
> something, but is this really a good idea? I've always regarded the 
> split packaging of vim in other distros as an unfortunate consequence of 
> their not being able to handle compile time options. Since one of gentoos 
> strengths is that it can this seems an odd decision - what's the advantage 
> over using the X and gtk USE settings like before?
> 
> Ewan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> gentoo-dev mailing list
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org
> http://lists.gentoo.org/mailman/listinfo/gentoo-dev
> 

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-user] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[Dan Armak]

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Hash: SHA1

On Saturday 14 September 2002 17:10, Ewan Mac Mahon wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Hannes Mehnert wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I just commited seperate ebuilds for gvim and vim.
>
> I seem to be a lone dissenting voice here, so I'm proably missing
> something, but is this really a good idea? I've always regarded the
> split packaging of vim in other distros as an unfortunate consequence of
> their not being able to handle compile time options. Since one of gentoos
> strengths is that it can this seems an odd decision - what's the advantage
> over using the X and gtk USE settings like before?

One advantage is that another ebuild can depend on kvim or gvim (fex. kvimpart 
needs either of these).

- -- 
Dan Armak
Gentoo Linux developer (KDE)
Matan, Israel
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-user] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[Magnus Therning]

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On Sat, Sep 14, 2002 at 03:10:22PM +0100, Ewan Mac Mahon wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Hannes Mehnert wrote:
> 
> > Hi everyone,
> > 
> > I just commited seperate ebuilds for gvim and vim.
> > 
> 
> I seem to be a lone dissenting voice here, so I'm proably missing 
> something, but is this really a good idea? I've always regarded the 
> split packaging of vim in other distros as an unfortunate consequence of 
> their not being able to handle compile time options. Since one of gentoos 
> strengths is that it can this seems an odd decision - what's the advantage 
> over using the X and gtk USE settings like before?

I agree with you.

I have also been looking at the vim ebild before and wondered wether it
really installed everything it was supposed to on my system (I suspect
rgvim was missing :-)

The current ebuilds seem to be overly complex (they were fun to make
though, I read ;-). If I read the ebuilds properly, this is what would
(should) happen if I execute 'emerge gvim':

1. Compile vim, without gui support, and install using 'make install'
2. Compile vim, with gui support, copy the binary to the correct
   location.

Seems like if I would want only 'terminal'-vim then I need to emerge
'vim-core'.

I believe it could all be done with a simpler ebuild than the current
three (four including the old one), by simply using the make files that
come with the tar-ball... or am I missing something fundamental here?

Now I am off to make my first ebuild, it'll be for vim ;-)

/M

-- 

Without chaos there would be no fun and games.
     -- Jonah Kinata

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-user] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[Scott Lampert]

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On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 05:24:55PM +0200, Magnus Therning wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Sep 14, 2002 at 03:10:22PM +0100, Ewan Mac Mahon wrote:
> 
> I agree with you.
> 
> I have also been looking at the vim ebild before and wondered wether it
> really installed everything it was supposed to on my system (I suspect
> rgvim was missing :-)
>

*snip*

Another issue with the current ebuild is that it doesn't provide
symlinks for view or gview, or vim to gvim which all change the behavior
of the executable.

-- 
Scott Lampert
<scott@lampert.org>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Public Key: http://www.lampert.org/public_key.asc

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-user] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[Tom von Schwerdtner]

On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 05:24:55PM +0200, Magnus Therning wrote:
> > I seem to be a lone dissenting voice here, so I'm proably missing 
> > something, but is this really a good idea? I've always regarded the 
> > split packaging of vim in other distros as an unfortunate consequence of 
> > their not being able to handle compile time options. Since one of gentoos 
> > strengths is that it can this seems an odd decision - what's the advantage 
> > over using the X and gtk USE settings like before?
> 
> I agree with you.
> 
> I have also been looking at the vim ebild before and wondered wether it
> really installed everything it was supposed to on my system (I suspect
> rgvim was missing :-)
> 
> The current ebuilds seem to be overly complex (they were fun to make
> though, I read ;-). If I read the ebuilds properly, this is what would
> (should) happen if I execute 'emerge gvim':
> 
> 1. Compile vim, without gui support, and install using 'make install'
> 2. Compile vim, with gui support, copy the binary to the correct
>    location.

Yes, it builds it twice (the single-vim ebuild did anyways) which I
never understood.  I've build vim from source numerous times and I've
never had to build it twice...after all, its the same executable.

IMO: gvim and vim come from the same source package and what is built is
easily determined by configure flags. So why do we need more than one
ebuild?  The only variation on this is kvim which is not part of the
'official' vim tree and hence, isnt an issue (untill its merged in which
case I still dont see a reason to split up the builds).  USE flags are
simple.  If people *really* *dont* *want* gvim installed but have
gnome/gtk/X/whatever in thier USE, then they will have to learn how USE
works and correct the problem properly.

-T

PS: I've been trying to access bugs.gentoo.org in an attempt to research
what led to mutliple vim ebuilds but "Bugzilla is currently broken"..or
so it says.

PPS: Dont get me wrong, I appriciate the time and effort that went into 
splitting up the vim ebuild as well as the time that goes into all
gentoo development.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-user] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[Tom von Schwerdtner]

On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 10:15:22PM -0400, Tom von Schwerdtner wrote:
> 
> Yes, it builds it twice (the single-vim ebuild did anyways) which I
> never understood.  I've build vim from source numerous times and I've
> never had to build it twice...after all, its the same executable.
<snip/>

Hmm...actually, I think I might remember why it builds twice.  If you
build vim with gui support, it makes a single executable.  This
executable depends on the gui related libs (gtk/gnome/X/whatever), so if
you develop a problem with those libs, you cant run that vim in the
console.

I'm not sure but I think the reasoning stems from that somewhere.....

Though, I'd rather see an extra vim-console ebuild that only built
console vim than having the whole vim setup overly complicated to work
around a single scenario that is (or should be) fairly uncommon (that
is, not being able to run vim in the console due to fould up X libs).

-T

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-user] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[Fredrik Jagenheim]

On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 10:15:22PM -0400, Tom von Schwerdtner wrote:
 
> IMO: gvim and vim come from the same source package and what is built is
> easily determined by configure flags. So why do we need more than one
> ebuild?  The only variation on this is kvim which is not part of the
> 'official' vim tree and hence, isnt an issue (untill its merged in which
> case I still dont see a reason to split up the builds).  USE flags are
> simple.  If people *really* *dont* *want* gvim installed but have
> gnome/gtk/X/whatever in thier USE, then they will have to learn how USE
> works and correct the problem properly.
> 
 
I'm running a KDE system, but I don't want kvim or gvim, since I do
most of my editing in xterms and not in separate windows.

I've looked at the USE flags, but can't find a way to disable the USE
flags for a specific package, in this case vim, apart from emerging it
with 'USE = "-X -kde" && emerge vim'. But I don't think these flags
will follow through when I do an 'emerge --update world', making it
build the kvim and gvim anyways.

On the other side, look at the package 'licq' which provides an ICQ
client. This package has different plugins depending on the interface,
most people want the 'qt' plugin, some people want the 'console'
plugin while I want both of them (I often ssh to my machine from work
to use ICQ). How would my USE flags look in this case where I want
both the console plugin (disabling the X-flag) /and/ the qt plugin
(the opposite of the former flag).

I guess there is no argument if there was a 'console' USE flag in
combination with the X flag, and they weren't mutually exclusive and a
way to specify permanent USE flags for individual packages.

I looked at the web-docs for USE flags, but can't see neither.

Brgds,
//Humming, still waiting for his licq-console emerge to be applied. ;)

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-user] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[Magnus Therning]

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On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 07:54:59AM +0200, Fredrik Jagenheim wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 10:15:22PM -0400, Tom von Schwerdtner wrote:
>  
> > IMO: gvim and vim come from the same source package and what is built is
> > easily determined by configure flags. So why do we need more than one
> > ebuild?  The only variation on this is kvim which is not part of the
> > 'official' vim tree and hence, isnt an issue (untill its merged in which
> > case I still dont see a reason to split up the builds).  USE flags are
> > simple.  If people *really* *dont* *want* gvim installed but have
> > gnome/gtk/X/whatever in thier USE, then they will have to learn how USE
> > works and correct the problem properly.
> > 
>  
> I'm running a KDE system, but I don't want kvim or gvim, since I do
> most of my editing in xterms and not in separate windows.
> 
> I've looked at the USE flags, but can't find a way to disable the USE
> flags for a specific package, in this case vim, apart from emerging it
> with 'USE = "-X -kde" && emerge vim'. But I don't think these flags
> will follow through when I do an 'emerge --update world', making it
> build the kvim and gvim anyways.

I think they will follow through, actually. At least I haven't had any
problems when I update mutt (initial emerge was 'USE="-slang" emerge
mutt').

> On the other side, look at the package 'licq' which provides an ICQ
> client. This package has different plugins depending on the interface,
> most people want the 'qt' plugin, some people want the 'console'
> plugin while I want both of them (I often ssh to my machine from work
> to use ICQ). How would my USE flags look in this case where I want
> both the console plugin (disabling the X-flag) /and/ the qt plugin
> (the opposite of the former flag).

I don't know 'licq', so I'll have to ask you. Is it possible, when
building manually, to specify both plugins?
<simplistic>
If it is, then it ought to be possible in the ebuild too, if not, well,
then it's a problem to be solved by the maintainer of 'licq'.
</simplistic>

> I guess there is no argument if there was a 'console' USE flag in
> combination with the X flag, and they weren't mutually exclusive and a
> way to specify permanent USE flags for individual packages.

The 'mutual exclusiveness' of two USE flags is really up to the ebuild
itself, I think. If a package provides two interfaces, and can be
compiled to support both, at the same time, then it should be possible
to do something like:

if A and B then ...
else if A and not B then ...
else if not A and B then ...
else ...

In the case of vim I think one has to choose, gui or console, and if gui
then choose exactly one toolkit (gnome/gtk/athena/motif/whatever).

/M

-- 

The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we
miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.
     -- Michelangelo

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-user] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[Fredrik Jagenheim]

On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 08:31:54AM +0200, Magnus Therning wrote:
> 
> I think they will follow through, actually. At least I haven't had any
> problems when I update mutt (initial emerge was 'USE="-slang" emerge
> mutt').
> 

If this is the case, excellent. :)

I don't have any of my gentoo systems online just now, so forgive me
for asking something I might as well figured out myself, but;
Where are the individual USE flags saved? If they are, that is.

> I don't know 'licq', so I'll have to ask you. Is it possible, when
> building manually, to specify both plugins?

Building licq is normally a two step process. First you build the
'base' and then the plugin you want. I see no reason why it shouldn't
be possible to increase this to three steps, base + two plugins.

> If it is, then it ought to be possible in the ebuild too, if not, well,
> then it's a problem to be solved by the maintainer of 'licq'.

Agreed. But how by using USE flags? Adding a new 'console' flag would
fix this I guess. But as you say, it's up to the current maintainer.

> In the case of vim I think one has to choose, gui or console, and if gui
> then choose exactly one toolkit (gnome/gtk/athena/motif/whatever).

Agreed there too. As long as I don't get the GUI automagically when
upgrading the vim package. :)

//Humming

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-user] splitted ebuilds for vim and gvim

[Magnus Therning]

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On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 10:38:20AM +0200, Fredrik Jagenheim wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 08:31:54AM +0200, Magnus Therning wrote:
> > 
> > I think they will follow through, actually. At least I haven't had any
> > problems when I update mutt (initial emerge was 'USE="-slang" emerge
> > mutt').
> > 
> 
> If this is the case, excellent. :)
> 
> I don't have any of my gentoo systems online just now, so forgive me
> for asking something I might as well figured out myself, but;
> Where are the individual USE flags saved? If they are, that is.

My USE flags for mutt seems to be in

/var/db/pkg/net-mail/mutt-1.4-r3/USE

/M

-- 

If it were easy to read, it wouldn't be called code.

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