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From: "Todd Wright" <wylie@geekasylum.org>
To: <gentoo-dev@gentoo.org>
Subject: RE: [gentoo-dev] making %95 of users happy
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:04:09 +1000
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> > > And to the person (Andrew I think) who quoted the following=20
> from the gentoo site as a reason for not having release branches...
> > >=20
> > > "*Portage allows you to set up Gentoo Linux the way you like =
it*..."
> > >=20
> > > It doesnt. Just when I get it how I like it, it changes.
>=20
> "IT changes"?? I'm at a loss here. You mean that YOU keep telling it
> to change? <wink> I think that you missed Daniel Robbins point:
No, I think you and the other person who suggested "dont emerge --update =
world" missed mine.
The problem is not emerge, or in using "--update" or "world", rather it =
is in the fact that the portage tree keeps being updated constantly, and =
there is no mechanism to lock things down, that allows for this.
For example. I do an emerge rsync and then emerge package-a, but =
package-a is broken, so later I emerge rsync again, hoping a new =
package-a-r1 is available, it is, and it works, but requires lib-x at =
version 1.0, which I have so it compiles all nice and everyone s happy
So, package-a is done.
Now I need to fix package-b which is also broken, the latest rsync I =
just did for package-a also got me a new package-b-r5.ebuild
package-b requires lib-x at version 1.35, but I have 1.0 so it has =
lib-x-1.35 as a dependancy. The lib downloads and installs, but it =
overwrites lib-x-1.0. Now package-a is broken again and wont compile, so =
I wait. a new rsync gets me package-a-r2 which compiles with lib-x-1.35, =
and all is happy.
A week from now, I emerge rsync to see if there are any new package-c =
updates and a new ebuild for lib-x-1.80 arrives but I dont install it =
since the other packages wont compile with it. Thats fine, but if I ever =
decide to rebuild my system from scratch (I might change motherboards =
and require new optimisation) with emerge --emptytree world, (which =
doesnt work btw - see bug 1911) portage goes and compiles lib-x-1.80 and =
Im back to square one.
The problem is not in compiling the world and being bleeding edge, it is =
in the fact that the portage tree is a constantly moving target. Every =
time you rsync to get a new version of one package you get the new =
version of _ALL_ packages.
What I have been saying all along is there needs to be a way to lock the =
system at a particular level - whether it is locked by the developers or =
by me, to say "this set of packages work reasonably well togehter". =
This doesnt have to be guaranteed, but you should be able to say "I have =
a reasonably stable system, lets keep it at this level", but still =
emerge rsync to get ebuilds for vital security fixes etc which apply to =
the packages that you have installed already, but nothing else.
Personally, being familiar with Linux, I can live with portage the way =
it is, but as a technologist I can see what others are saying, and agree =
with them. Im just trying to explain it the best I can.
Perhaps this will work itself out all by itself. When Gentoo 1.2 is =
released and the make.profile is changed to point at the default-1.2 =
profile, the bleeding edgers can use that while the more conservative =
keep their link to 1.0 Thinking about it, this is probably the ultimate =
solution, its just not apparent right now since Gentoo is so young, and =
the only available option is to use the 1.0 profile. When there is a =
choice, the current version profile will be bleeding edge, while the =
previous version will only be updated with major fixes, and will become =
the "stable" release.
There. Ive just convinced myself. This is a temporary problem that =
solves itself as Gentoo matures.
-- _--_|\ --------- Todd Wright -- wylie@geekasylum.org --------
/ \ =20
\_.--._* <--- http://www.dreams.darker.net/~wylie/
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