Re: [gentoo-dev] LibPNG Problems :(

Re: [gentoo-dev] LibPNG Problems :(

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

Sorry, this solution is NOT acceptable. This pretty much says that I have 
rebuild most of my graphics apps, and possibly X (which I recompiled it just 
yesterday anyway during my upgrade to 1.1a). This is just WAY too time 
consuming, and, simply put, it doesn't worth the trouble. I would expect 
Gentoo LLC to find a better solutions for its users, especially if this 
error was not a user error, but the maintener's. Asking poor cpu cycle users 
to recompile everything, it is just not so good, don't you think?

WHY this "dll hell" had happened anyway? Is there not another, easier way to 
fix this, by downloading a new libpng or something else? It seems that _a 
lot_ of people just got on the same problem, if I judge from the number of 
emails regarding the new libpng problems that breaks compatibility.

So, who's problem that is? The person who did the ebuilds? the person who 
did other depended ebuilds? libpng's? Mine for want to run Linux and in fact 
ran into dll hell? :(

/me goes back to Windows, MacOSX and BeOS. The Free/Open software is not 
there yet for the end user (forget the fact that I am actually a developer - 
Linux is only free if you have a lot of free time to spare - I don't).

Thank you all for the answers so far, in the last 2 weeks.  I really 
appreciated your help. Please do not see the above as whining, these are 
just my honest thoughts about the free software as a whole today (I mean, 
when you put all these individual projects to work together under the 
umbrella of an OS - any OS). Not very well co-ordinated.  :(

Regards,
Eugenia


>Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] LibPNG Problems :(
>From: Matthew Kennedy <mkennedy@gentoo.org>
>To: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org
>Date: 17 Apr 2002 03:04:43 -0500
>Reply-To: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org
>
>Howdy,
>
>On Wed, 2002-04-17 at 02:20, Eugenia Loli-Queru wrote:
> > http://www.eugenia.co.uk/snapshot1.png
> > You are seeing Konqueror with no icons, the actual error messages on the
> > right hand side, and also my libpngs on the terminal above, as they live 
>on
> > /usr/lib.
>
>This problem and it's solution was discussed a few times on the
>gentoo-user list a while back. Hope the URLs to them help.
>
>http://lists.gentoo.org/pipermail/gentoo-user/2002-April/019211.html
>http://lists.gentoo.org/pipermail/gentoo-user/2002-April/020543.html
>http://lists.gentoo.org/pipermail/gentoo-user/2002-April/020182.html
>
>Matt
>
>--
>Matthew Kennedy
>Gentoo Linux Developer


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Re: [gentoo-dev] LibPNG Problems :(

[Spider]

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begin  quote
On Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:08:10 +0000
"Eugenia Loli-Queru" <eloli@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry, this solution is NOT acceptable. This pretty much says that I
> have rebuild most of my graphics apps, and possibly X (which I
> recompiled it just yesterday anyway during my upgrade to 1.1a). This
> is just WAY too time consuming, and, simply put, it doesn't worth the
> trouble. I would expect Gentoo LLC to find a better solutions for its
> users, especially if this error was not a user error, but the
> maintener's. Asking poor cpu cycle users to recompile everything, it
> is just not so good, don't you think?
> 


'xcuse me for a moment while I grep my system..... Nope, X does -not-
link libpng at any point. 

So, where did you get this notion from? 

Second, if you check your lib's first, and get a listing, you'll note
that it is four or five different libraries that need upgrading. -then-
check your binaries. dont let the complete listing of things that link
to a general graphics library and then to libpng fool you.

Second, this issue seems to be sadly out of our control, there are two
ways you can go around it though, both have been introduced before this:

a) Ignore the new libpng. 
	this is what most binary distributions do, they simply ignore the
updated and will then release a new minor version of their distribution
where everything smoothly links against the new libpng version.

b) Force upgrade of all packages linking to libpng.
	this is the path we choose here, all packages that ever link to libpng
has been updated with the new dependencies. check for yourself.

The fact that libpng 1.2.x and 1.0.x are -binary- incompatible doesn't
change much when you haven't compiled anything against the new version.
everyhting is cool, the right library gets loaded and all things look
pretty.

but, when you mix the two.... install a new package that depends on
libpng on an older way (through a library) you get a conflict. suddenly
you have two versions of libpng installed. 

Where does this leave you? the two versions cannot safely coexist since
they are binary incompatible..... You have to either rebuild the things
that you recently rebuilt against the old libpng, and remove the new
libpng from your system...

or you must rebuild the old libraries that link to the old version of
libpng with the new versions as provided. 

Now, could you conclude your trollish rant and show me -where- does X
link to libpng?

//Spider




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Re: [gentoo-dev] LibPNG Problems :(

[Milos Negovanovic]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:08:10 +0000
"Eugenia Loli-Queru" <eloli@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry, this solution is NOT acceptable. This pretty much says that I
> have rebuild most of my graphics apps, and possibly X (which I
> recompiled it just yesterday anyway during my upgrade to 1.1a). This
> is just WAY too time consuming, and, simply put, it doesn't worth the
> trouble. I would expect Gentoo LLC to find a better solutions for its
> users, especially if this error was not a user error, but the
> maintener's. Asking poor cpu cycle users to recompile everything, it
> is just not so good, don't you think?
> 
> WHY this "dll hell" had happened anyway? Is there not another, easier
> way to fix this, by downloading a new libpng or something else? It
> seems that _a lot_ of people just got on the same problem, if I judge
> from the number of emails regarding the new libpng problems that
> breaks compatibility.
> 
> So, who's problem that is? The person who did the ebuilds? the person
> who did other depended ebuilds? libpng's? Mine for want to run Linux
> and in fact ran into dll hell? :(
> 
> /me goes back to Windows, MacOSX and BeOS. The Free/Open software is
> not there yet for the end user (forget the fact that I am actually a
> developer - Linux is only free if you have a lot of free time to spare
> - I don't).
> 
> Thank you all for the answers so far, in the last 2 weeks.  I really 
> appreciated your help. Please do not see the above as whining, these
> are just my honest thoughts about the free software as a whole today
> (I mean, when you put all these individual projects to work together
> under the umbrella of an OS - any OS). Not very well co-ordinated.  :(
> 
> Regards,
> Eugenia
> 
> 
> >Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] LibPNG Problems :(
> >From: Matthew Kennedy <mkennedy@gentoo.org>
> >To: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org
> >Date: 17 Apr 2002 03:04:43 -0500
> >Reply-To: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org
> >
> >Howdy,
> >
> >On Wed, 2002-04-17 at 02:20, Eugenia Loli-Queru wrote:
> > > http://www.eugenia.co.uk/snapshot1.png
> > > You are seeing Konqueror with no icons, the actual error messages
> > > on the right hand side, and also my libpngs on the terminal above,
> > > as they live on
> > > /usr/lib.
> >
> >This problem and it's solution was discussed a few times on the
> >gentoo-user list a while back. Hope the URLs to them help.
> >
> >http://lists.gentoo.org/pipermail/gentoo-user/2002-April/019211.html
> >http://lists.gentoo.org/pipermail/gentoo-user/2002-April/020543.html
> >http://lists.gentoo.org/pipermail/gentoo-user/2002-April/020182.html
> >
> >Matt
> >
> >--
> >Matthew Kennedy
> >Gentoo Linux Developer
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
> http://www.hotmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> gentoo-dev mailing list
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org
> http://lists.gentoo.org/mailman/listinfo/gentoo-dev
> 
Hello,

i must say that instructions for updating libpng worked smoothly (for me
that is). Also majority of complaints posted here come from KDE people
and are related to simple fact that they have to recompile bigger part
fo their systems and that they dont like it ( hehe i wouldnt either :)
). 

Milos
(i am not gentoo developer, just casual visitor)

Re: [gentoo-dev] LibPNG Problems :(

[Kevin Hayes]

On Thu, 2002-04-18 at 08:08, Eugenia Loli-Queru wrote:
> Sorry, this solution is NOT acceptable. This pretty much says that I have 
> rebuild most of my graphics apps, and possibly X (which I recompiled it just 
> yesterday anyway during my upgrade to 1.1a). This is just WAY too time 
> consuming, and, simply put, it doesn't worth the trouble. I would expect 
> Gentoo LLC to find a better solutions for its users, especially if this 
> error was not a user error, but the maintener's. Asking poor cpu cycle users 
> to recompile everything, it is just not so good, don't you think?


You could ask for your money back :)...

-- 
Kevin Hayes

Re: [gentoo-dev] LibPNG Problems :(

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

BTW, I _ really_ did not mean any disrespect to the Gentoo team on my 
previous emails.
BUT, just for the kicks, these are the packages I need to upgrade, according 
to the png script because Portage has somehow emerged that new libpng:

update-libs:
------------
dev-perl/gtk-perl
gnome-base/gnome-libs
media-gfx/gimp
media-libs/fnlib
media-libs/gdk-pixbuf
media-libs/imlib
net-print/cups
x11-libs/fltk
x11-wm/WindowMaker

update-bins:
----------------------
app-admin/kebuild
app-admin/kemerge
app-editors/quanta
app-games/lbreakout2
app-misc/krusader
app-office/abiword
app-office/koffice
dev-perl/gtk-perl
gnome-base/control-center
gnome-base/gnome-core
gnome-base/gnome-libs
kde-base/arts
kde-base/kdeaddons
kde-base/kdeadmin
kde-base/kdeartwork
kde-base/kdebase
kde-base/kdebase
kde-base/kdeedu
kde-base/kdegames
kde-base/kdegraphics
kde-base/kdelibs
kde-base/kdelibs
kde-base/kdemultimedia
kde-base/kdenetwork
kde-base/kdepim
kde-base/kdetoys
kde-base/kdeutils
media-gfx/eog
media-gfx/gimp
media-libs/fnlib
media-libs/gdk-pixbuf
media-libs/imlib
media-video/mplayer
media-video/xine-ui
media-video/xmovie
net-im/kopete
net-print/cups
net-www/opera
net-www/opera
x11-libs/fltk
x11-wm/WindowMaker
x11-wm/enlightenment
x11-wm/flwm
x11-wm/icewm

Sorry, this is almost one more day without really using my PC but leaving it 
there, compiling and compiling and compiling and me watching TV waiting for 
it. Boring, man. That's all. I did that twice in the last 2 weeks. I wanna 
use now the bloody thing, not fixing its installations.  :-(

I mean, sure, this is a source-based distro. But it goes too far.

Regards,
Eugenia



.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] LibPNG Problems :(

[Daniel Robbins]

On Wed, 2002-04-17 at 18:54, Eugenia Loli-Queru wrote:
> Sorry, this is almost one more day without really using my PC but leaving it 
> there, compiling and compiling and compiling and me watching TV waiting for 
> it. Boring, man. That's all. I did that twice in the last 2 weeks. I wanna 
> use now the bloody thing, not fixing its installations.  :-(
> 
> I mean, sure, this is a source-based distro. But it goes too far.

I'd recommend that people who don't want to have the latest and greatest
versions of everything (and everything that goes with it), don't use
--update with emerge.  That should help you avoid most problems.  We are
still devising a good distributed QA system, but that hasn't been added
to Portage yet :)

Best Regards,

-- 
Daniel Robbins                                  <drobbins@gentoo.org>
Chief Architect/President                       http://www.gentoo.org 
Gentoo Technologies, Inc.

Re: [gentoo-dev] LibPNG Problems :(

[Spider]

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Sorry to say this...
.... you, and the script.... are wrong.

This is a -WELL KNOWN AND DOCUMENTED- limitation of the script.

All your cute kde programs link to kdelibs and qt...
kdelibs and qt link to libpng....

so, all your kde programs link to libpng through qt and kdelibs....

re-emerging qt and kdelibs will solve almost all kde programs.

continue with the same for gtk-perl.. it links gtk and gdk-pixbuf,
gdk-pixbuf links libpng ....

gimp links libpng for obvious reasons (unless you have USE="-png" )
gnome-libs ditto (gnome libs handles the menu and icons in png format)
fnlib imlib gdk-pixbuf and fltk are all wrapper-libraries for graphics.
very common libraries that use libpng to provide png support to other
programs so you won't have to update every program around when you want
to update the link to libpng... isn't that good of them?

that leaves : 
x11-wm/WindowMaker


Try it, emerge theese things and see for yourself.. how many of the
binaries will remain?

Yes, now I'm irritated that you didn't read my emails close enough, 
I mentioned this before.



//Spider

begin  quote
On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 00:54:36 +0000
"Eugenia Loli-Queru" <eloli@hotmail.com> wrote:

> BTW, I _ really_ did not mean any disrespect to the Gentoo team on my 
> previous emails.
> BUT, just for the kicks, these are the packages I need to upgrade,
> according to the png script because Portage has somehow emerged that
> new libpng:
> 
> update-libs:
> ------------
> dev-perl/gtk-perl
> gnome-base/gnome-libs
> media-gfx/gimp
> media-libs/fnlib
> media-libs/gdk-pixbuf
> media-libs/imlib
> net-print/cups
> x11-libs/fltk
> x11-wm/WindowMaker
> 
> update-bins:
> ----------------------
> app-admin/kebuild
> app-admin/kemerge
> app-editors/quanta
> app-games/lbreakout2
> app-misc/krusader
> app-office/abiword
> app-office/koffice
> dev-perl/gtk-perl
> gnome-base/control-center
> gnome-base/gnome-core
> gnome-base/gnome-libs
> kde-base/arts
> kde-base/kdeaddons
> kde-base/kdeadmin
> kde-base/kdeartwork
> kde-base/kdebase
> kde-base/kdebase
> kde-base/kdeedu
> kde-base/kdegames
> kde-base/kdegraphics
> kde-base/kdelibs
> kde-base/kdelibs
> kde-base/kdemultimedia
> kde-base/kdenetwork
> kde-base/kdepim
> kde-base/kdetoys
> kde-base/kdeutils
> media-gfx/eog
> media-gfx/gimp
> media-libs/fnlib
> media-libs/gdk-pixbuf
> media-libs/imlib
> media-video/mplayer
> media-video/xine-ui
> media-video/xmovie
> net-im/kopete
> net-print/cups
> net-www/opera
> net-www/opera
> x11-libs/fltk
> x11-wm/WindowMaker
> x11-wm/enlightenment
> x11-wm/flwm
> x11-wm/icewm
> 
> Sorry, this is almost one more day without really using my PC but
> leaving it there, compiling and compiling and compiling and me
> watching TV waiting for it. Boring, man. That's all. I did that twice
> in the last 2 weeks. I wanna use now the bloody thing, not fixing its
> installations.  :-(
> 
> I mean, sure, this is a source-based distro. But it goes too far.
> 
> Regards,
> Eugenia
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> gentoo-dev mailing list
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org
> http://lists.gentoo.org/mailman/listinfo/gentoo-dev


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Re: [gentoo-dev] LibPNG Problems :(

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

>Now, could you conclude your trollish rant and show me -where- does X link 
>to libpng?

I never said that X links to it. I just said that I hope that it won't need 
to rebuilt X as well, because I did so just yesterday. I am not an X expert, 
*neither* I care what links against. I just don't want to go again through 
the pain of long compilations. I did that 2 weeks ago and did so yesterday. 
No more, thank you. I need my PC to work, not to view gcc and make working 
their butt off all day *and night* as it did for these two installations.

Problem is, I never asked for this new incompatible version of libPNG. You 
are missing the point. This new version was suddenly emerged as part of the 
(I would assume...) --update world and has messed up my whole system. I 
never asked for such a mess, I just asked for an upgrade.

If these two libs were incompatible and create such problems, they should 
not have been allowed to be part of an ebuild. If this was a full 
installation of Gentoo 1.1a, that is ok, because all of gentoo will be 
linked against a certain version of libs. But I had 1.0 and when I tried to 
udpate world, the whole thing went to hell and now I am left with half apps 
that work and half that don't (plus libGL.so does not work either now :P). 
As for that script that I need to run, it does not really fixed anything. As 
I said, rebuilding the mess that the new libpng created, is not an option.

I would expect more testing to be done before releasing all these ebuilds to 
the users or have a more intelligent portage somehow to be able to avoid dll 
hell.

As the other person very well said just an hour ago:
"Right now, installing a particular Gentoo release is like nailing jelly to 
a wall...."

I would expect a 1.0 release to be really 1.0 and to know that it works and 
that it won't put my installation in such state by emerging a game or a qt 
2.x app. I need a system that I can trust. That's all.

Thank you,
Eugenia




.

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[gentoo-dev] LibPNG Problems :(

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

So, I did as suggested in the previous email and emerged kdebase.
Throughout the compilation, KDE was putting warnings about conflict between 
libpng.so.2 conflicting with libpng.so.3. However, the compilation went ok.
After it finished, I now do not have icons on Konqueror and all the apps 
that were compiled on kdebase. Please check the screenshot:
http://www.eugenia.co.uk/snapshot1.png
You are seeing Konqueror with no icons, the actual error messages on the 
right hand side, and also my libpngs on the terminal above, as they live on 
/usr/lib.

So, why there is this conflict at the first place? How can I fix it? Why the 
first 'emerge kde' 1.5 weeks ago got it right, and the subsequent re-emerge 
has screwed up?

Thanks,
Eugenia

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Re: [gentoo-dev] LibPNG Problems :(

[Matthew Kennedy]

Howdy,

On Wed, 2002-04-17 at 02:20, Eugenia Loli-Queru wrote:
> http://www.eugenia.co.uk/snapshot1.png
> You are seeing Konqueror with no icons, the actual error messages on the 
> right hand side, and also my libpngs on the terminal above, as they live on 
> /usr/lib.

This problem and it's solution was discussed a few times on the
gentoo-user list a while back. Hope the URLs to them help.

http://lists.gentoo.org/pipermail/gentoo-user/2002-April/019211.html
http://lists.gentoo.org/pipermail/gentoo-user/2002-April/020543.html
http://lists.gentoo.org/pipermail/gentoo-user/2002-April/020182.html

Matt

-- 
Matthew Kennedy
Gentoo Linux Developer