[gentoo-dev] Why do you love Gentoo Linux?

[gentoo-dev] Why do you love Gentoo Linux?

[tneidt]

Hi!

Although I am not a Gentoo developer, I saw the wiki post and thought I would 
donate my 2-cents. :)  FYI, my background is science/engineering not software 
development so this might give you a little different perspective.

>Questions to answer:
>Why do you love Gentoo Linux?

Over the years I have migrated from slackware --> redhat --> debian -->
Linux from Scratch (LFS) --> gentoo (yea!). My debian period was motivated by 
(IMHO) the superior package management. However, my need for easy optimization, 
greater control and the most current software versions (esp. 
science/engineering apps)lead me to LFS.  LFS provided the optimization, 
control and up-to-dateness (a good learning experience too), but the 
accumulation of cruft from lack of package management was annoying. For me, 
gentoo provides all of the above. In particlular, gentoo advantages for 
science/engineering apps are:

1. optimization: even a modest 3-10% performance improvement can make a 
significant impact on runtime for number crunching apps, i.e a 72 hour 
molecular dynamics simulation.

2. control: easy to play with configuration for tweaking the build (see 1 above)

3. current versions:  a lot of science/engineering apps are under constant 
development to take advantage of the latest compilers, libraries, algorithms to 
tweak performance (see 1 above).

4. did I mention optimization? :) 

>What should our business strategy be? (achim and I have our own ideas, but how 
>would *you* like things to evolve?)

You might have guessed, but I believe gentoo would be appealing to people 
wanting a science/engineering workstation.  This might be an additional market 
segment for you. (I believe HP, IBM and others market Linux sci/eng 
workstations.)

>What is Gentoo Linux going to be like in 18 months?
Here are some features I would like to see in increasing order of pie-In-the-
sky speculation.

1. kernel ebuilds check for /etc/kernel.config for default kernel config for 
system.

2. a separate (build) config command in portage,
 i.e ebuild foo.1.0.ebuild config
  to allow manual ./configure tweaking between automatic unpack, make, install, 
qmerge for cases where you want a rather esoteric build config that isn't of 
suffieciently general interest to put in the ebuild script

3.  app-security packages, i.e. portsentry, tripwire, etc.
    I might try to contribute some security related packages in the future 
(yes, I had a box rooted by a bot recently. That's what I get for not updating 
bind, on a dial-up connection no less.)

4.  System build configuration management via  esr's CML2 kinda like what their 
doing with CML2+OS at the embedded debian project. Hey, why not? Python is 
already part of the gentoo system. :)  Would allow fine-grained configuration 
of USE setting. For example USE bar in the build of foo1 but not in the build 
of foo2 when both foo1 and foo2 of the option of using bar.

That's my two-cents.
I think Gentoo is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Keep up the good work!

Tod M.
Neidt

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Why do you love Gentoo Linux?

[Daniel Robbins]

On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 04:25:21PM +0000, tneidt@mail.fidnet.com wrote:

> That's my two-cents.
> I think Gentoo is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Keep up the good work!

Thanks for your post -- you definitely have a lot of neat ideas.  Please try to
stop by in #gentoo sometime (if you aren't there already) and alert me to your
presence so that I can create a dev account for you.  You appear to be ready to
start commiting your scientific apps directly to Portage, but please still be
very careful with the Python ebuild -- you should check with me and achim first
before modifying python or spython since it has the potential to affect our
work.

Right now, we're focusing on getting rc5 ready for developers in the next 24
hours.  That includes the CD, a good build image and all the binary packages.
Over the next week, we'll probably be fixing little quirks and then announcing
on freshmeat.  Just wanted to give you a little background so you don't feel
like we've been ignoring your Python ebuilds. :)  We're quite busy atm :)

Best Regards,

-- 
Daniel Robbins					<drobbins@gentoo.org>
President/CEO					http://www.gentoo.org 
Gentoo Technologies, Inc.			

RE: [gentoo-dev] Why do you love Gentoo Linux?

[Luis Ortega]

First a little background. I have been using computers for a loooong time.
Compiled my first program (FORTRAN) on a IBM 650. Moved to IBM 1401 & 1620.
The IBM engineer nailed on me that you do not play games in computers. They
are strictly for business :) Long time ago but I still have problems playing
games even in my own PC. So I am for business use of computers. No fun :(

I am new to Linux but have some experience coding, installing,
troubleshooting and for the past 7 or 8 years, administering networks. As an
MCSE, with scars to prove it, I got annoyed when MS decided to invalidate my
expertise.

I have been looking into Linux for quite a while (have bought and installed
every REDHAT release, installed it and dropped it) but never got anywhere.
Was too busy learning NT, SQL server or whatever.

As an admin I was looking for a simple firewall (MS Proxy server is just a
hassle) and discovered a single diskette Linux 2.0.xx firewall called
Freesco. Instant love. Easy to install and does the job.

I started thinking about a distro that would be as easy to install as
Freesco but more modern and capable of doing more. My idea was a very basic
distro that would be capable of connecting to a network and building
anything I wanted as a Netadmin. A firewall, a file & print server, a
database server, a mail server, a web server, whatever. For the end users, I
do not care. They can use whatever they like (Win, Mac, Gnome, KDE, etc).
Why fight with them. On the server side, I want something I can really have
control of.

I felt that Linux was worth looking into. Checked into IBM website and found
Dan Robbins' article on Gentoo. I thought, this guy is ahead of me and seems
to be on the path I want to travel, let me follow him, so here I am.
</background>

>Questions to answer:
>Why do you love Gentoo Linux?

I cannot say I love Gentoo Linux but it certainly looks attractive. I am
basically a Netadmin looking for tools to build services in my network. I
have not done much development in the past few years but I can come back and
contribute. I feel that if I wanted to do so, I would do it with a group
like this. Eventually I could share the love of the present developers.


>What should our business strategy be? (achim and I have our own ideas, but
how
>would *you* like things to evolve?)

I will tell what I would like to do. Presently I am a Netadmin, as I have
mentioned, but would like to start a business installing networks and maybe
some biz apps in small businesses or departments in large corporations.
Since I think that the Internet will permeate most if not all business
aspects, I need tools that are Internet savvy. In order to be competitive,
and help my potential customers be competitive, I need tools that are
commodities. What I see as my potential market is a very price sensitive and
budget conscious one. I cannot go with tools that require a license even to
get a cup of coffee.

What is more, I foresee that there would be an international network of
people like me, who would share my ideas and who would pool their effort
(for their own self economic interest) and help develop the tools with these
goals in mind. I foresee that there would be mirrors in every corner of the
world where we would build our servers and WS from.

If I am building systems, say, here in Miami, it makes sense for me to have
a mirror-server in my office when I am setting up machines in my shop but it
could service anyone, even me, anywhere.

I Do not know India, but I know Latinamerica and I am sure that we share
many traits that make my vision of the computer business somewhat universal.
We need tools like Gentoo Linux to help our business communities prosper by
being modern and competitive.


>What is Gentoo Linux going to be like in 18 months?

This is more a definition of the developers but if you are thinking along
this line Gentoo Linux should be what Caldera wants to be (which seems to be
shooting itself on the foot every step of the way). The Linux distro par
excellence for system integrators.

Perhaps more important now than the goal is how to reach that critical mass.
Education is the key. REDHAT has a the familiarity of Coca-Cola in the Linux
world but Open Source can be as opaque as any Microsoft product if you do
not know how to walk in and recognize the environment. I installed every
version of REDHAT but had no clue as to what to do after logging in. And did
not have the time or desire to spend tons of hours exploring it. I am
thinking of something like a "Gentoo for Newbies" website or a "Gentoo from
Scratch" project (a la Linux From Scratch). A ramp to facilitate the
assimilation of would-be Gentoo Linux fans.

As for particular developments that I would like to see in Gentoo Linux, I
would like to have one single script (I do not care if there is no GUI),
let's call it Gentoo, that will guide me to anything I would want to do at
the console as an admin/installer. If the computer is so smart why do I have
to remember every fscking command and all its parameters (or check manpages
without a single example). Let's extend the concept of ease of installation
of Portage to ease of administration. I spend a few minutes every now and
then installing. I spend hours after hours administering.

Closer to my heart, I am a fan of Instant Messaging. I would love to be able
to install IM servers everywhere, something like Jabber.

Along these lines I would like to be able to have macro installations.  Say
I want a server that is a mail, IM, web and FTP server. I would like to have
a script where I would fill in the blanks and voila!, there it goes. Go do
something else like train the customer or check the wiring and when I
return, I have my mail, web, IM and FTP server ready to plug into the
network.

>What sets Gentoo Linux apart from other distros? What makes us different?
If I am reading the message correctly, this is a distro for serious matters.
Whether it is business, manufacturing, science or engineering, this is the
platform of choice. You can have fun, play games, listen to music, whatever,
it is you choice but Gentoo Linux means business. Ease of use is not only
for clueless end users. Admins and installers who are short of time need
support in their daily functions too. It aims to be a stable modern distro
that will not break when installed or upgraded.

What are some ways in which we can assist IBM?
Dan, I must confess that you got me with this one. The only thing I have
more of than IBM is debts. They are welcome to as much as they can grab. ;-)

Seriously, I guess that question is there for a purpose. Well, if my idea of
a worldwide network of Gentoo Linux users/installers/integrators
materializes I would say that IBM could have some very interesting partners
everywhere they do business. Of course, it has to be a win-win situation so
it is more like "how can we partner with IBM." You are closer to them. You
tell us. I am all ears.