[gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[Lars Wendler]

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Hey list,

I'm planning to lastrite net-irc/xchat in the next couple of weeks.
Unfortunately my hope that upstream development would be resumed didn't come 
true. As the code becomes more and more outdated, open unfixed security bugs 
are present[1][2] and at some point in the future =x11-libs/gtk+-2* will 
vanish from the tree I don't see any other option than removing xchat from the 
tree.
I don't see this as a big drama as we already have a drop-in replacement in 
form of the net-irc/hexchat fork.
I checked this today and all people have to do is emerge hexchat and then copy 
over the xchat config:
  mkdir ${HOME}/.config ; cp -a ${HOME}/.xchat2 ${HOME}/.config/hexchat

I'd like to see your opinion on this matter as long as you have one you'd like 
to share with me ;)
Furthermore I would shift my attention from the xchat package to hexchat 
seeing that it currently gets proxy maintained. If there's no objection I'd 
like to become the new contact of the person currently maintaining the package 
in portage.

I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I 
lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this 
before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some 
documentation about portage news?

Regards


[1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/394657
[2] https://bugs.gentoo.org/257006
-- 
Lars Wendler (Polynomial-C)
Gentoo package maintainer and bug-wrangler

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Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[Zac Medico]

On 11/25/2012 12:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
> I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I 
> lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this 
> before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some 
> documentation about portage news?

There's a nice little set of instructions here:

  http://gentoo-pr.org/node/16

The news repository is in git these days:

  http://sources.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/gentoo-news.git;a=summary
-- 
Thanks,
Zac

Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[hasufell]

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Hash: SHA1

On 11/25/2012 09:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
> Hey list,
> 
> I'm planning to lastrite net-irc/xchat in the next couple of
> weeks. Unfortunately my hope that upstream development would be
> resumed didn't come true. As the code becomes more and more
> outdated, open unfixed security bugs are present[1][2] and at some
> point in the future =x11-libs/gtk+-2* will vanish from the tree I
> don't see any other option than removing xchat from the tree. I
> don't see this as a big drama as we already have a drop-in
> replacement in form of the net-irc/hexchat fork. I checked this
> today and all people have to do is emerge hexchat and then copy 
> over the xchat config: mkdir ${HOME}/.config ; cp -a
> ${HOME}/.xchat2 ${HOME}/.config/hexchat
> 
> I'd like to see your opinion on this matter as long as you have one
> you'd like to share with me ;) Furthermore I would shift my
> attention from the xchat package to hexchat seeing that it
> currently gets proxy maintained. If there's no objection I'd like
> to become the new contact of the person currently maintaining the
> package in portage.
> 
> I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as
> soon as I lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to
> hexchat. As I never did this before I'd like to have some help
> concerning this matter. Is there some documentation about portage
> news?
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> [1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/394657 [2]
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/257006

That's a pity. I was just about to step forward to rescue
net-irc/xchat-xsys from treecleaning.

Do xchat plugins work in hexchat?

Maybe we could just hardmask it. I see some ebuilds in the tree being
hardmasked due to security bugs, but not removed which is ok to me.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[Lars Wendler]

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Am Sonntag 25 November 2012, 22:03:03 schrieb hasufell:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 11/25/2012 09:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
> > Hey list,
> > 
> > I'm planning to lastrite net-irc/xchat in the next couple of
> > weeks. Unfortunately my hope that upstream development would be
> > resumed didn't come true. As the code becomes more and more
> > outdated, open unfixed security bugs are present[1][2] and at some
> > point in the future =x11-libs/gtk+-2* will vanish from the tree I
> > don't see any other option than removing xchat from the tree. I
> > don't see this as a big drama as we already have a drop-in
> > replacement in form of the net-irc/hexchat fork. I checked this
> > today and all people have to do is emerge hexchat and then copy
> > over the xchat config: mkdir ${HOME}/.config ; cp -a
> > ${HOME}/.xchat2 ${HOME}/.config/hexchat
> > 
> > I'd like to see your opinion on this matter as long as you have one
> > you'd like to share with me ;) Furthermore I would shift my
> > attention from the xchat package to hexchat seeing that it
> > currently gets proxy maintained. If there's no objection I'd like
> > to become the new contact of the person currently maintaining the
> > package in portage.
> > 
> > I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as
> > soon as I lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to
> > hexchat. As I never did this before I'd like to have some help
> > concerning this matter. Is there some documentation about portage
> > news?
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > 
> > [1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/394657 [2]
> > https://bugs.gentoo.org/257006
> 
> That's a pity. I was just about to step forward to rescue
> net-irc/xchat-xsys from treecleaning.

How about migrating xchat-xsys to hexchat?

> Do xchat plugins work in hexchat?

That's something for me to find out as well. I maintain the xchat-otr plugin 
which I would like to continue using in hexchat.
 
> Maybe we could just hardmask it. I see some ebuilds in the tree being
> hardmasked due to security bugs, but not removed which is ok to me.

-- 
Lars Wendler (Polynomial-C)
Gentoo package maintainer and bug-wrangler


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Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[hasufell]

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> 

>> Do xchat plugins work in hexchat?
> 
> That's something for me to find out as well. I maintain the
> xchat-otr plugin which I would like to continue using in hexchat.
> 

just tested xchat-xsys on hexchat and it does work, all commands afais
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Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[Mike Frysinger]

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
> I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I
> lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this
> before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some
> documentation about portage news?

use profiles/updates/ to move xchat to hexchat ...
-mike

Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[Mike Gilbert]

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
>> I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I
>> lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this
>> before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some
>> documentation about portage news?
>
> use profiles/updates/ to move xchat to hexchat ...
> -mike
>

I don't think a package move is appropriate since the two packages
install different files. The installed files would not be updated,
just the vdb.

Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[Lars Wendler]

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Am Sonntag 25 November 2012, 17:26:30 schrieb Mike Gilbert:
> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
> >> I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon
> >> as I lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I
> >> never did this before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter.
> >> Is there some documentation about portage news?
> > 
> > use profiles/updates/ to move xchat to hexchat ...
> > -mike
> 
> I don't think a package move is appropriate since the two packages
> install different files. The installed files would not be updated,
> just the vdb.

Indeed. I also think that a pkg-move cannot be done here.

-- 
Lars Wendler (Polynomial-C)
Gentoo package maintainer and bug-wrangler


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Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[Mike Frysinger]

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
>>> I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I
>>> lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this
>>> before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some
>>> documentation about portage news?
>>
>> use profiles/updates/ to move xchat to hexchat ...
>
> I don't think a package move is appropriate since the two packages
> install different files. The installed files would not be updated,
> just the vdb.

... which portage will happily "upgrade" next time you `emerge -u world`
-mike

Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[Michał Górny]

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On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 04:18:40 -0500
Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> >> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
> >>> I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I
> >>> lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this
> >>> before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some
> >>> documentation about portage news?
> >>
> >> use profiles/updates/ to move xchat to hexchat ...
> >
> > I don't think a package move is appropriate since the two packages
> > install different files. The installed files would not be updated,
> > just the vdb.
> 
> ... which portage will happily "upgrade" next time you `emerge -u world`

Hmm, like 'move sys-fs/udev sys-apps/systemd'?

/me hides...

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

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Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[Mike Frysinger]

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:00 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 04:18:40 -0500 Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
>> > On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> >> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
>> >>> I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I
>> >>> lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this
>> >>> before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some
>> >>> documentation about portage news?
>> >>
>> >> use profiles/updates/ to move xchat to hexchat ...
>> >
>> > I don't think a package move is appropriate since the two packages
>> > install different files. The installed files would not be updated,
>> > just the vdb.
>>
>> ... which portage will happily "upgrade" next time you `emerge -u world`
>
> Hmm, like 'move sys-fs/udev sys-apps/systemd'?

i think the difference here is that we all agree that everyone wants
to upgrade from xchat to hexchat
-mike

Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[Michał Górny]

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On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 05:07:53 -0500
Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:00 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> > On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 04:18:40 -0500 Mike Frysinger wrote:
> >> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
> >> > On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> >> >> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
> >> >>> I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I
> >> >>> lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this
> >> >>> before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some
> >> >>> documentation about portage news?
> >> >>
> >> >> use profiles/updates/ to move xchat to hexchat ...
> >> >
> >> > I don't think a package move is appropriate since the two packages
> >> > install different files. The installed files would not be updated,
> >> > just the vdb.
> >>
> >> ... which portage will happily "upgrade" next time you `emerge -u world`
> >
> > Hmm, like 'move sys-fs/udev sys-apps/systemd'?
> 
> i think the difference here is that we all agree that everyone wants
> to upgrade from xchat to hexchat

Maybe. On the other hand, the udev->systemd switch was performed
upstream which makes it a valid candidate for package move.

xchat & hexchat are different packages. It's a bit like pretending that
the discontinuation and fork didn't ever happen, and the packages are
equivalent (which they are not, as have been already pointed out).

IMO considering the fact that user needs to migrate his configuration
by hand, making the switch automagic is not helpful at all. It's rather
confusing when 'xchat' instantly becomes 'hexchat' which it is actually
not before the rebuild. And after the rebuild user suffers the usual
upgrade pain of packages changing heavily between versions.

So, please do not hack the updates mechanism around to achieve minor
goals. It should be used to move packages which suffered a rename
or merge, not to provide replacements and suggestions. For those,
package.mask messages are much better.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

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Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[Mike Frysinger]

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> xchat & hexchat are different packages. It's a bit like pretending that
> the discontinuation and fork didn't ever happen, and the packages are
> equivalent (which they are not, as have been already pointed out).

they're about as equivalent as you're going to get.  a few plugins
don't work, but not a big deal.  the config file formats are also
largely compatible.

> IMO considering the fact that user needs to migrate his configuration
> by hand, making the switch automagic is not helpful at all.

yeah, i don't think so.  that's like saying "since i have to turn the
steering wheel anyways when driving a car, there's no point in power
steering".

> And after the rebuild user suffers the usual
> upgrade pain of packages changing heavily between versions.

which is irrelevant to the suggestion at hand

> So, please do not hack the updates mechanism around to achieve minor
> goals. It should be used to move packages which suffered a rename
> or merge, not to provide replacements and suggestions. For those,
> package.mask messages are much better.

the inability to "make" users read the package.mask message explaining
the situation is the only valid point in your e-mail.

along those lines, a news entry is probably not even necessary.
-mike

Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:33 AM, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> along those lines, a news entry is probably not even necessary.

So, users will just suddenly have their binary change names, and will
need to manually move config files and update logrotate.d files (if in
use), and the only notice will be in an elog?  Oh, and that elog will
appear for a program called "hexchat" which as far as the user is
aware they don't even use.

This really seems to be stretching the purpose of package moves, and I
don't hear users generally complaining about the fact that we give
them too much warning when we're about to break their systems.  We
really should be using news more, and not less.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[Luca Barbato]

On 11/26/2012 01:16 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:33 AM, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> along those lines, a news entry is probably not even necessary.
> 
> So, users will just suddenly have their binary change names, and will
> need to manually move config files and update logrotate.d files (if in
> use), and the only notice will be in an elog?  Oh, and that elog will
> appear for a program called "hexchat" which as far as the user is
> aware they don't even use.
> 
> This really seems to be stretching the purpose of package moves, and I
> don't hear users generally complaining about the fact that we give
> them too much warning when we're about to break their systems.  We
> really should be using news more, and not less.

We can do what we do for mplayer2 and soon mpv.

If the program is largely the same adding compatibility symlinks seems
to me the simplest solution.

lu

Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:17:13 +0100
Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Maybe. On the other hand, the udev->systemd switch was performed
> upstream which makes it a valid candidate for package move.

No, it's not a valid candidate for a package move if the destination
package already exists. A "move" is specifically for a rename, not for
merging two existing packages together.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh

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Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[Mike Frysinger]

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 7:16 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:33 AM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> along those lines, a news entry is probably not even necessary.
>
> So, users will just move config in an elog?  Oh, and they don't even use.

see what happens when you delete context ?  it no longer makes sense.
if you read my reply in whole, it'd be clear that i was agreeing with
Michał about the package.mask route *which would then make the need
for a news entry pointless*.
-mike

Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[Walter Dnes]

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 05:33:15AM -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote
> 
> the inability to "make" users read the package.mask message explaining
> the situation is the only valid point in your e-mail.
> 
> along those lines, a news entry is probably not even necessary.

  Howsabout following the same procedure as when xpdf was dropped?  I
vaguely remember "emerge --update --deep world" stopping with a message
that xpdf was being dropped, and also a few alternatives were suggested
in the message.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>

Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat

[Diego Elio Pettenò]

On 26/11/2012 10:17, Walter Dnes wrote:
>   Howsabout following the same procedure as when xpdf was dropped?  I
> vaguely remember "emerge --update --deep world" stopping with a message
> that xpdf was being dropped, and also a few alternatives were suggested
> in the message.

That's the p.maks message.

-- 
Diego Elio Pettenò — Flameeyes
flameeyes@flameeyes.eu — http://blog.flameeyes.eu/