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From: Joseph Booker <joe@neoturbine.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 16:18:58 -0400
Message-ID: <CAJSjvtLv2de2MgyYB_y+o2im4acNcmHugKCEYJfoFs+PbO0LJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] usr merge
To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
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On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 4:07 PM, <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 08, 2016 at 09:20:19AM -0500, William Hubbs wrote
> >
> > Here is more info about the split and why it exists. It turns out it hs
> > nothing to do with system admininistration or permissions.
> >
> > http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2010-December/074114.html
> >
> http://www.osnews.com/story/25556/Understanding_the_bin_sbin_usr_bin_usr_sbin_Split/
> > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3519952
> >
> > In short, this is all a historical artifact with justifications thought
> > up after the fact.
>
> The historical reasons may or may not exist any longer. The question
> is "what is the current situation?". The current situation is that
> there are 3 classes of software...
> 1) system software that is required for bootup (mount, init, etcetera)
> 2) system software that is usually used by root for admin purposes
> 3) regular applications that users use
>
> Question... do we really want "GIMP", "Firefox", etcetera, in the same
> directory as "mount", "chroot", "login", "passwd", "ifconfig", etcetera?
>
>From my own experience, it is useful to run "ifconfig" or "mount" as a
regular user, same as the gimp or firefox commands. Given that all the
commands you listed are in /usr/bin or /bin, I think I'm not the only one.
The difference between "system software" and "regular applications" isn't
clear-cut.
> I don't think so. I want separate "system progs" versus "user progs"
> directories. There may be an argument for merging /bin and /sbin
> directories (items 1 and 2 above), but user applications should be
> separate. If we move /bin and /sbin into /usr/bin, I suggest moving all
> user programs to /usr/local/binuser applications should be separate. If
> we move /bin and /sbin into /usr/bin, I suggest moving all user programs
> to /usr/local/bin.
>
> --
> Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
> I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications
>
>
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 4:07 PM, <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a =
href=3D"mailto:waltdnes@waltdnes.org" target=3D"_blank">waltdnes@waltdnes.o=
rg</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Fri, Apr 08, 2016 at 09:20:19AM -0=
500, William Hubbs wrote<br>
<span class=3D"">><br>
> Here is more info about the split and why it exists. It turns out it h=
s<br>
> nothing to do with system admininistration or permissions.<br>
><br>
> <a href=3D"http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2010-December/07=
4114.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.busybox.net/pi=
permail/busybox/2010-December/074114.html</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://www.osnews.com/story/25556/Understanding_the_bin_sbi=
n_usr_bin_usr_sbin_Split/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.=
osnews.com/story/25556/Understanding_the_bin_sbin_usr_bin_usr_sbin_Split/</=
a><br>
> <a href=3D"https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D3519952" rel=3D"nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D3519952</a=
><br>
><br>
> In short, this is all a historical artifact with justifications though=
t<br>
> up after the fact.<br>
<br>
</span>=C2=A0 The historical reasons may or may not exist any longer.=C2=A0=
The question<br>
is "what is the current situation?".=C2=A0 The current situation =
is that<br>
there are 3 classes of software...<br>
1) system software that is required for bootup (mount, init, etcetera)<br>
2) system software that is usually used by root for admin purposes<br>
3) regular applications that users use<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 Question... do we really want "GIMP", "Firefox",=
etcetera, in the same<br>
directory as "mount", "chroot", "login", &quo=
t;passwd", "ifconfig", etcetera?<br></blockquote><div><br></=
div><div>From my own experience, it is useful to run "ifconfig" o=
r "mount" as a regular user, same as the gimp or firefox commands=
. Given that all the commands you listed are in /usr/bin or /bin, I think I=
'm not the only one. The difference between "system software"=
and "regular applications" isn't clear-cut.<br><br></div><di=
v>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I don't think so.=C2=A0 I want separate "system progs" versus=
"user progs"<br>
directories.=C2=A0 There may be an argument for merging /bin and /sbin<br>
directories (items 1 and 2 above), but user applications should be<br>
separate.=C2=A0 If we move /bin and /sbin into /usr/bin, I suggest moving a=
ll<br>
user programs to /usr/local/binuser applications should be separate.=C2=A0 =
If<br>
we move /bin and /sbin into /usr/bin, I suggest moving all user programs<br=
>
to /usr/local/bin.<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
--<br>
Walter Dnes <<a href=3D"mailto:waltdnes@waltdnes.org">waltdnes@waltdnes.=
org</a>><br>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications=
<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
--001a113edfdad384c1052ffee811--