From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B4D659CAF for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 20:19:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D539521C03D; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 20:19:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-io0-f176.google.com (mail-io0-f176.google.com [209.85.223.176]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE01D21C00C for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 20:19:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-io0-f176.google.com with SMTP id 2so145003060ioy.1 for ; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:19:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=neoturbine-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=LclHxNaYNS0y/NsBJkl5VpeCLHcmAXhR4c7UILXOGPE=; b=zq6GyAH+rN12hyt6tRI4UAbaaUomeiDLJ/1m0z/+jrS2xT07tT7uqhry6U+NGPMZvW SesTC9//8ci+TiOSyDcstQAtaT2wxzFSNpHNCQ6bCZUt8mJskCTBmQsrYFVBi2uXcoL7 JwE1RIaiq08Zux6V2pGTzHiKdmBTIU14wRNBMwCxiK8shbrGRC5J8el/7FCKyEjPcN6B BzF/MXxGtm74b6dnPxK4eTlYd01fNlplchWVhL4YAGHA9qoBWpD6UmRNfQr/T1GdJqpr mxL4bUVNLndyWZl085r2Lk6SzYOFwuCootB2idYr6XNvw0XcpGrgYHtP+goZ5g/Ak92O Ae8A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=LclHxNaYNS0y/NsBJkl5VpeCLHcmAXhR4c7UILXOGPE=; b=fNxkNMKFcaicK3gjgtcy3TP7rwAlfhkTvvZuZaim9z2pn6HjkY8csOYCO768mPp4P8 atn2T8Mpt59lOK3qVBVrYVMydN2P3j7q5LWPw1KZ5teEbzzd9TTaFWeRtisBrMQW3vtU RZnYj7KoOgumCtVSNB7ZZbV6WxvkN6fpKze0SeJTgs7pJD6WOEXc1RUryeSPb7KwkDlo v3rDS2TKiIQTNj8k8lKSkblLReNJZaJRnwrdlfUN/oLsCOA1tfYVn5DaCX2QVfeJ89Gp DDPGlsy4Ozw5XPr6+AuIscZRl+dlh76gEJm2iIrvtxSQjST5G9BJtxvAA/PEk99r3VzE Ls7g== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJNpDon3pej4wDEbnxtsDfP/+wK8MEhtCreWUlkeAdz/wDRjVYbfQ+mgi0MEalwlJuBQ2VaEt2D2QKp8g== X-Received: by 10.107.10.16 with SMTP id u16mr12695443ioi.167.1460146757921; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.167.14 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:18:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [134.228.148.241] In-Reply-To: <20160408200721.GA28274@waltdnes.org> References: <5707191B.7060909@gmail.com> <57071AF6.7060206@iee.org> <5707be2c.0af3ca0a.86e6c.ffffef69@mx.google.com> <20160408200721.GA28274@waltdnes.org> From: Joseph Booker Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 16:18:58 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] usr merge To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113edfdad384c1052ffee811 X-Archives-Salt: f5a001c2-b904-404e-8449-b87c3718b662 X-Archives-Hash: ac50cf064b07715e3ac11131030c25da --001a113edfdad384c1052ffee811 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 4:07 PM, wrote: > On Fri, Apr 08, 2016 at 09:20:19AM -0500, William Hubbs wrote > > > > Here is more info about the split and why it exists. It turns out it hs > > nothing to do with system admininistration or permissions. > > > > http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2010-December/074114.html > > > http://www.osnews.com/story/25556/Understanding_the_bin_sbin_usr_bin_usr_sbin_Split/ > > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3519952 > > > > In short, this is all a historical artifact with justifications thought > > up after the fact. > > The historical reasons may or may not exist any longer. The question > is "what is the current situation?". The current situation is that > there are 3 classes of software... > 1) system software that is required for bootup (mount, init, etcetera) > 2) system software that is usually used by root for admin purposes > 3) regular applications that users use > > Question... do we really want "GIMP", "Firefox", etcetera, in the same > directory as "mount", "chroot", "login", "passwd", "ifconfig", etcetera? > >From my own experience, it is useful to run "ifconfig" or "mount" as a regular user, same as the gimp or firefox commands. Given that all the commands you listed are in /usr/bin or /bin, I think I'm not the only one. The difference between "system software" and "regular applications" isn't clear-cut. > I don't think so. I want separate "system progs" versus "user progs" > directories. There may be an argument for merging /bin and /sbin > directories (items 1 and 2 above), but user applications should be > separate. If we move /bin and /sbin into /usr/bin, I suggest moving all > user programs to /usr/local/binuser applications should be separate. If > we move /bin and /sbin into /usr/bin, I suggest moving all user programs > to /usr/local/bin. > > -- > Walter Dnes > I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications > > --001a113edfdad384c1052ffee811 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 4:07 PM, <waltdnes@waltdnes.o= rg> wrote:
On Fri, Apr 08, 2016 at 09:20:19AM -0= 500, William Hubbs wrote
>
> Here is more info about the split and why it exists. It turns out it h= s
> nothing to do with system admininistration or permissions.
>
> http://lists.busybox.net/pi= permail/busybox/2010-December/074114.html
> http://www.= osnews.com/story/25556/Understanding_the_bin_sbin_usr_bin_usr_sbin_Split/
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D3519952
>
> In short, this is all a historical artifact with justifications though= t
> up after the fact.

=C2=A0 The historical reasons may or may not exist any longer.=C2=A0= The question
is "what is the current situation?".=C2=A0 The current situation = is that
there are 3 classes of software...
1) system software that is required for bootup (mount, init, etcetera)
2) system software that is usually used by root for admin purposes
3) regular applications that users use

=C2=A0 Question... do we really want "GIMP", "Firefox",= etcetera, in the same
directory as "mount", "chroot", "login", &quo= t;passwd", "ifconfig", etcetera?
I don't think so.=C2=A0 I want separate "system progs" versus= "user progs"
directories.=C2=A0 There may be an argument for merging /bin and /sbin
directories (items 1 and 2 above), but user applications should be
separate.=C2=A0 If we move /bin and /sbin into /usr/bin, I suggest moving a= ll
user programs to /usr/local/binuser applications should be separate.=C2=A0 = If
we move /bin and /sbin into /usr/bin, I suggest moving all user programs to /usr/local/bin.

--
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.= org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications=


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