From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D40C3138334 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 20:13:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D2D42E08D6; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 20:13:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76F12E08C4 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 20:13:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-io1-f47.google.com (mail-io1-f47.google.com [209.85.166.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: floppym) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4858A34B3CB for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 20:13:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-io1-f47.google.com with SMTP id h144so18966854iof.7 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 13:13:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWXc4ylj0l2/ENwd8Rd+cXZ2ockg3YSU3e+XuR1Xi1xZ+kExPgk JARf8hBGA5l8Ii/Fdy7fW+qcyqbwVRjrVXHxY9s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyOLMv9NgQQToIYbf4VmcHP+w2FRRIktpBm4Yxvs6ULIw4N2ANHikm78bUrr0x3210uoqMGCoDXDA0q6XkbFrk= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:2c02:: with SMTP id s2mr11895539ios.54.1569010399276; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 13:13:19 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5fc919ec85751bd88d4bf0775ba1733584f92dc2.camel@gentoo.org> <20e57b194284c4d20e6781573fd0387257aed9f1.camel@gentoo.org> <20190920190324.GA31594@cloudsdale.the-delta.net.eu.org> In-Reply-To: <20190920190324.GA31594@cloudsdale.the-delta.net.eu.org> From: Mike Gilbert Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 16:13:08 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Underscores in USE flags To: Gentoo Dev Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: aba2927c-8912-448b-a68e-11c6c163a2ee X-Archives-Hash: f30940530925d3114563469fa593b7f3 On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 3:03 PM Haelwenn (lanodan) Monnier wrote: > > [2019-09-20 13:24:45-0400] Mike Gilbert: > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:55 PM Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: > > > On Fri, 2019-09-20 at 12:41 -0400, Mike Gilbert wrote: > > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:11 PM Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 2019-09-20 at 11:46 -0400, Mike Gilbert wrote: > > > > > > Recently, a large number of bugs were filed against packages th= at have > > > > > > USE flag names which contain underscores. Apparently PMS prohib= its > > > > > > this except when the USE flag is part of a USE_EXPAND variable. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://projects.gentoo.org/pms/7/pms.html#x1-200003.1.4 > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not certain when this text was added to PMS, or how many of= the > > > > > > affected USE flags pre-date this policy. > > > > > > > > > > > > Portage seems to have no issue dealing with underscores, so thi= s > > > > > > doesn't seem to be solving any technical problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am pretty sure that renaming a bunch of USE flags will cause = some > > > > > > amount of end-user confusion, for very little benefit. Is enfor= cing > > > > > > this part of PMS really worth it? > > > > > > > > > > And having packages with pretended-USE_EXPAND-that-does-not-work-= as- > > > > > USE_EXPAND is less confusing to the users? > > > > > > > > I doubt users immediately think "USE_EXPAND" when they see an under= score. > > > > > > > > Portage's seems fairly unambiguous to me. For example: > > > > > > > > % emerge -pv1O app-misc/foo > > > > > > > > These are the packages that would be merged, in order: > > > > > > > > [ebuild N ] app-misc/foo-0::local USE=3D"-modern_kernel" > > > > PYTHON_TARGETS=3D"python3_7" VIDEO_CARDS=3D"radeon" 0 KiB > > > > > > > > Total: 1 package (1 new), Size of downloads: 0 KiB > > > > > > > > I don't think anyone would mistake "modern_kernel" for a USE_EXPAND > > > > value given the above. > > > > > > Look at the humongous list of flags on dev-libs/aws-sdk-cpp. They al= l > > > start with 'aws_targets' which is a clear attempt to emulate USE_EXPA= ND. > > > Expect that they won't work as USE_EXPAND, user typing: > > > > > > AWS_TARGETS=3D"foo bar baz" > > > > > > will just wildly confused, and in the end this prefixing is just sill= y > > > and causes the flag names to become awfully long. > > > > Ok, so you chery-picked one particularly horrible example. The Portage > > output still puts them in USE=3D"" section, though the user probably > > won't see that given the massive USE flag list. > > > > My point still stands for many of the other packages in the repo that > > don't have several dozen flags. > > While that's true for portage, it is false for gentoolkit with the > `equery u ` command. > > Following your original example it would be something like: > > % equery y app-misc/foo > [ Legend : U - final flag setting for installation] > [ : I - package is installed with flag ] > [ Colors : set, unset ] > * Found these USE flags for app-misc/foo-0::local > U I > - - modern_kernel : Install init scripts for 3.18 or higher k= ernels with atomic rule updates > + + python_targets_python3_7 : Build with Python 3.7 > - - video_cards_radeon : VIDEO_CARDS setting to build driver for A= TI radeon video cards > > And with a bunch more of USE flags (not with having to go to extremes lik= e > dev-libs/aws-sdk-cpp) it is very confusing a lot of time on machines wher= e > app-portage/eix would be overkill I had to check on another machine. Ah, thank you for the example. I imagine equery is used quite frequently for this sort of thing, so I'll concede the point. It would be nice if there were some easy way to migrate package.use settings; that's going to cause some grumbling from sysadmins.