From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org)
	by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60)
	(envelope-from <gentoo-dev+bounces-48124-garchives=archives.gentoo.org@lists.gentoo.org>)
	id 1RDypn-0001yn-7x
	for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2011 13:26:59 +0000
Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 52A9121C117;
	Wed, 12 Oct 2011 13:26:50 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail-bw0-f53.google.com (mail-bw0-f53.google.com [209.85.214.53])
	by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEBCD21C075
	for <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>; Wed, 12 Oct 2011 13:26:13 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by bkbzt12 with SMTP id zt12so53821bkb.40
        for <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>; Wed, 12 Oct 2011 06:26:12 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
        h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date
         :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type
         :content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=mB/3Mtrq1VSTHhSJ4TvmcHx1H017Hen42JMBL4huEog=;
        b=R2IoBu/1ZT4+gK27ezptLYLGl/Hxca5f2A/pFr49OaWj/hIZZJ2/tO80utXlbdXiAY
         qAB3qYGlbALUmNZcACJOlTLy/s4p7xWKci7+TStvU4zhqU8iOOPPMmyCRr51e1Unil/O
         D2OEtZQGk1gmczsUyvoCfbf37tygjy4LiNu+k=
Precedence: bulk
List-Post: <mailto:gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gentoo-dev+help@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev+unsubscribe@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev+subscribe@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail <gentoo-dev.gentoo.org>
X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.204.156.141 with SMTP id x13mr6967117bkw.54.1318425972781;
 Wed, 12 Oct 2011 06:26:12 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com
Received: by 10.204.72.195 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Oct 2011 06:26:12 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <20111012044023.GA8203@waltdnes.org>
References: <20111012044023.GA8203@waltdnes.org>
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 09:26:12 -0400
X-Google-Sender-Auth: ilM67Bu4Od0ldimIuM5bzxKrVWY
Message-ID: <CAGfcS_nctddpGF9MCGoSHEw7TN4Af9iU6jn+OhGhht3B5NbHkA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Suggestion for getting rid of udev
From: Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Archives-Salt: 
X-Archives-Hash: e36731ec4c15cb3cb06d580ec7515fd7

On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 12:40 AM, Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> wrote=
:
> =A0Forking udev is probably not an option. =A0The udev lead developer is =
a
> Redhat employee, and his direction seems to be to drag everybody in
> Redhat's direction. =A0Our community doesn't have Redhat's billions.

We should note that RedHat is already spending their billions to make
dracut smarter, and if initramfs is good enough for RHEL then it
should be good enough for us if somebody just has to have /usr on a
separate device and needs some of the fancier udev rules to work on
boot.  For those who don't need dracut there was already a stated
desire to provide a simplified initramfs.  And, for less complex
setups, you don't need it at all.

My concern with something like dropping udev is that it would make us
different from every other desktop distro out there.  I'm not aware of
any distro packaging Gnome/KDE without udev.  Not having Redhat's
billions to me is a good reason to try to do things the same way that
Redhat does them - so that we're not re-inventing the wheel.

Gentoo is still a fairly meta distro and if users want to remove udev
they probably can do it without a great deal of hassle if they don't
want hot more hotplugish experience and don't use the big desktop
environments.  It just doesn't make sense to make that a default.  In
the same way I don't mind a list of CFLAGS that spans 3 lines but I'd
never advocate putting that into the default make.conf.

Rich