From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1SOt3m-0005LR-W1 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 16:02:47 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A16DBE0B6B; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 16:02:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-bk0-f53.google.com (mail-bk0-f53.google.com [209.85.214.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77BF8E0B50 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 16:01:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcjk13 with SMTP id jk13so2276946bkc.40 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 09:00:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=7/dqAcWpJmadHr9ht1lrzZwry17oWoitXJvSc91s8tc=; b=YddY3Gc0rBGhIE3rHzEK+Gb+YFHBcwpQ5BiFN0JcrBY9K5CqvwQ+1uuyHK0FqZ86Sw pG5CbQe7u6VWt2Jy9sABxaxy1YoAogF0q7GLbm6/q5FjQWHeP1r6sB39Ym+Ava74zkxV 8JjQqKUwPkaaaHhiqIORr/D3OlNpZB0YsEDsf3PwXEhFXFfS2CHn4g6LjjMHsf2bsy7o OUIIz6kbn7ijTirK5034fPUA0iSV9graVjAuyxIRpXH/jnO9CR9TzQBTh5e0KbzBpp2/ 3zzcI99tdYtUWh2ZD/iZEgOYmu+Suh9lCpzYzQZm7EzvGBSWgxHAD37ozt+9TfIfHAbR aHTw== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.153.205 with SMTP id l13mr7504747bkw.68.1335801659594; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 09:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.226.77 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 09:00:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4F9E47AF.9080201@gentoo.org> References: <4F9E44D0.70002@linx.net> <4F9E47AF.9080201@gentoo.org> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:00:59 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: hy5gJ6hW1eG64hZk0gGiMYYw430 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] busybox[sep-usr] support for mounting /usr w/out hassle From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Archives-Salt: 3b6f88c5-9ff8-4e9e-aa20-ac05c5b74e6d X-Archives-Hash: 440f29cda3f678a0d30f4d57ca5b0209 On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 4:05 AM, Tony "Chainsaw" Vroon wrote: > Binaries that are essential for system boot, and must be available in > single user mode go in /bin and /sbin, with their libraries in /lib. > This allows for /usr to be: > 1) marked read-only for NFS mounts, which some of us rely on > 2) inside of an LVM2 container, allowing for / to be (very) small > 3) on a squashfs filesystem, in order to save space These are all things easily supported with an initramfs. In fact, initramfs-based solutions allow the same sorts of things to be done with all the other filesystems and not just /usr. > Trying to second-guess my motivation, and trying to undo unanimous > council votes simply because your opinion is different, really has to > stop. I don't think anybody is trying to undo council votes - people are just speculating as to what they voted on. The easiest solution is for somebody to say "I'm John Smith, and I am speaking officially for the council, and we agree that what was decided upon is X." It seems pretty clear that everybody wants to support a separate /usr. We even have multiple supported solutions, including an initramfs, a use flag on busybox, and I believe somebody posted a script that can be run during early boot to mount /usr. It sounds like the only thing that isn't supported is "doing nothing" - but with Gentoo if you "do nothing" you don't get an installed system that works on any configuration. > > I feel a lot better about vapier's pragmatic approach then I do about > udev/systemd upstream's ability and motivation to support current > systems. If you had any doubts about whether udev was part of the > problem, consider what tarball you will have to extract it from in future. Well, if others feel differently about the direction udev is taking, they can of course just fork it. I can't say I'm terribly excited about the amount of vertical integration going on. I don't run Gnome, and I don't run Unity. I really do prefer the unix way. However, I don't contribute much to those upstream projects, and I don't see much value in telling a bunch of people who do that they are doing it wrong. I don't like how Google develops Android in the dark, or that they bundle 1GB of third-party stuff in their Chromium source and distribute a favored binary-only derivative. However, I do like that they're giving me all of that stuff essentially for free, and so beyond the odd blog post I try not to give them too hard a time. In the same way I think we need to give the maintainers of these projects in Gentoo some slack, or join those projects and help them to address your needs. It is a lot easier to tell others what to do than to help make it happen, but a volunteer-based project like Gentoo needs the latter more than the former. Rich