From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: <gentoo-dev+bounces-71955-garchives=archives.gentoo.org@lists.gentoo.org>
Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80])
	by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DEDA138454
	for <garchives@archives.gentoo.org>; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 17:17:14 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3448221C01C;
	Thu, 10 Sep 2015 17:17:08 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail-ig0-f180.google.com (mail-ig0-f180.google.com [209.85.213.180])
	(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits))
	(No client certificate requested)
	by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5794D21C00E
	for <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 17:17:07 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by igbkq10 with SMTP id kq10so21809326igb.0
        for <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 10:17:06 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
        h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject
         :from:to:content-type;
        bh=pAUY12PSJP5akBrbq41iZR9ED6FworkqxY4fBffvzzw=;
        b=N/N2CjB1DdSIVz4LovousGIVek4ClpTOTjUgxXO+mgGAO0P9oLD1jtN6h8gpqY9CKt
         RdDl6w/Bpwym3v++V+Frp9DoXuxPMem2GQeanBTkxCixJjY9FK857dJRKjivmeDAmySw
         4DSMPqGmluetcWk75HXs2d7BCDkL1Qt14J2rCQVJgo4wzUgCDz+y0ru6Lf7kL2345ANj
         8scXISJRNn6/4DDt3UEvYjeKgc4PvzsB89eTlBkhHq8xNNencVXuwpj3D5MyPSMGj2d0
         WGvddTrB7RTaXHfIyqOkeGO2LVHNoQGn/8eoTfY4dV7Pfwh7EAph3gFWy5twzLUjjM1a
         xTpQ==
Precedence: bulk
List-Post: <mailto:gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gentoo-dev+help@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev+unsubscribe@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev+subscribe@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail <gentoo-dev.gentoo.org>
X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.50.78.161 with SMTP id c1mr8402947igx.35.1441905426611; Thu,
 10 Sep 2015 10:17:06 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com
Received: by 10.79.103.70 with HTTP; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 10:17:06 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <55F1B687.4030604@gentoo.org>
References: <55EFDEC7.1070403@gentoo.org>
	<20150910124641.GB6567@greenbeast>
	<20150910150716.5a843cc7.mgorny@gentoo.org>
	<2405010.0JSpNPP3XQ@note>
	<55F1B687.4030604@gentoo.org>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 13:17:06 -0400
X-Google-Sender-Auth: p3NC8pv4d3CRE4aSoGabESYTBhY
Message-ID: <CAGfcS_nBpy0rH5Qc+YRJkYftZO9gzmQcXHRQxQSWHeJ7B3-Cig@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] www-client/chromium gtk3 support
From: Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-dev <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
X-Archives-Salt: 2bb61612-22b1-4120-a366-bcc3af090ace
X-Archives-Hash: f7ead2ee6f1ef49787a692f1082ddbdd

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 12:57 PM, hasufell <hasufell@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On 09/10/2015 04:31 PM, Vadim A. Misbakh-Soloviov wrote:
>> WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO DICTATE users what they should use and what they should
>> not.
>
> You should really either reconsider your understanding of opensource or
> start to pay me.
>
> Gentoo is for the most part GPL-2 and you can fork, change and
> redistribute it any way you want. We are not dictating anything.

++

>
> Given the fact that we are short on manpower and that most part of the
> linux ecosystem is moving towards gtk3... there has been no good
> argument to support a toolkit version - that is (about to be) deprecated
> - for exotic corner use cases that people tried to come up with in the
> heat of the argument.
>

So, my issue is really with the proposition that we need a "good
argument" to support a toolkit version in the first place.

If the Firefox maintainers want to support two toolkit versions, more
power to them.

Gentoo is volunteer-based, and not a zero-sum game.  If you tell
somebody that they're not allowed to support A in the tree, that
doesn't mean that they'll have more time to support B instead.  It
probably just means that they'll spend less time contributing to
Gentoo.  In fact, if being prevented from supporting A makes Gentoo
less useful to them overall, they might just move to some other distro
and then not only do you lose A, but you lose C, D, and E.

That might be inefficient, but it is the result of depending on free
labor.  That's why we can have 400 unique window managers for X11 but
only one guy working in his spare time on openssl.  People work on the
stuff that interests them, not necessarily on what is most needed by
the general public.

The Firefox maintainers don't have to have a good reason to support
two versions of gtk.  As long as it generally builds/runs and complies
with security policy then they're allowed to do that, and our users
are better off for it.

You could look at any USE flag in the distro and make a case for how
we could probably get by without it.  After all, most distros don't
have USE flags at all and they seem to get by.

If somebody wants to go invent x32 in their spare time and maintain it
on Gentoo, more power to them, even if only 3 people use it.  I think
stuff like this is where Gentoo actually contributes the most to the
FOSS ecosystem.  We're a breeding ground for crazy but innovative
ideas and the best ones can get stolen by everybody else.  And just
like openssl nobody gives us much credit for it, but that's not why we
do it.

-- 
Rich