From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A49F9138334 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 22:42:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0F2E0E08CA; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 22:42:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pf1-f176.google.com (mail-pf1-f176.google.com [209.85.210.176]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CABDBE0875 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 22:42:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pf1-f176.google.com with SMTP id x184so852581pfb.3 for ; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:42:11 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=sgUS5Z8N/sOFzmjElEGdT+hZQs91FjgHho1zW5spsvY=; b=PRZo5MTAqxkN1iYOlL1oUOZDl6mBrV7JJxb3yzs1L1Dr45qbOuMkzr9zDfWsZLpVCd JZA1VjwZTAy4w7OvQwY7f/pfqfSwaeHdYUypwWfAmb98cESV3Iwop3xMWzhMa6zgNkbj hu+yqgaPs81xRLkhG8yc3jva0EQ2pr3sWhWkqFzaGvhTt8WawKFrTtTAUv8DEzqOWWdz LYQMOmGh/hjo4um0skx4FJQtu+7MW5nmYY219fG02XDVU2EhJqp2fjR1ko0sEzsDXmgS DNuIEvwK2RXdVYIV9YPEoO0VhTyqoDLSW4VEIHz6Etu/anSLWmxfHY8M3ppb1WMOFHXx G9OQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWI9nquxwTERr7kgWC1uW3K/jUTzHZys2QJEV5lDRaQumwAA+mm Twptvpc16BfnuuEeD7Zgdbhr2Uz8Fj5ssv7VA/pP6KC7 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqymxS8BR8l8voEjQ6hOm5L195opwXKPXCNDhOqVayu4FD5LZ29yzUwy9SRl42pfIndOL6qv2HqxTE+9n/ah8mI= X-Received: by 2002:a63:8041:: with SMTP id j62mr4551pgd.41.1575585730034; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:42:10 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <51dddccd576fb1203457a09f305bac5a48eaae6c.camel@gentoo.org> <20f5820a902edd121bd49195c4adc2f5cea84fa8.camel@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <20f5820a902edd121bd49195c4adc2f5cea84fa8.camel@gentoo.org> From: Rich Freeman Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 17:41:58 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] unsanctioned python 2.7 crusade To: gentoo-dev Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Archives-Salt: 92af06dc-4c3a-4746-a935-5ca69abdcd0b X-Archives-Hash: 6d0889543d303554e66056520e766774 On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 5:23 PM David Seifert wrote: > > And that's exactly the straw-man argument I've been making. You can > always come up with an excuse to delay action on python 2, because > "someone, somewhere, will maintain it". Hey, if somebody actually does want to maintain it I don't see any reason it can't stick around forever. Of course maintain means maintain, not just ignore bugs/etc if it causes grief for other packages and so on, or allow security issues to fester. So far I'm getting the impression that everybody wants somebody else to maintain it, and that is when it becomes an issue. "WE ought to do this" - where "WE" usually means "not me." There is no nebulous "Gentoo" out there who will maintain ebuilds. If they are to stay in the repo then somebody has to actually tend them. If somebody wants to keep around 2.7 for a long time IMO the most straightforward thing to do is announce a desire to do it with a plan. I really doubt that anybody is likely to interfere, and if they do it can always be escalated to Council. But, again, it has to be done right and not cause issues for other packages (at least at the start that shouldn't be a huge problem). Personally I've always admired the Wikipedia policy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:BOLD If you want to see a change, go about it in a positive way. If such a change bothers you, assume good faith, but point out the issues. Don't over-react in either direction. This is how 99% of everything positive that has ever happened in Gentoo has come about. Most of our improvements are the result of "unsanctioned crusades." That doesn't mean that you should go around breaking systems left and right, but in this case we're just talking about a mask, or announcing an intent to do a project. But, such a thing will certainly involve work. IMO it is work for diminishing returns. If it is an itch that bothers you, though, you can always scratch it... -- Rich