From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <gentoo-dev+bounces-82928-garchives=archives.gentoo.org@lists.gentoo.org> Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2A9D139083 for <garchives@archives.gentoo.org>; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 22:38:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E921EE10AD; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 22:37:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pg0-x236.google.com (mail-pg0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88C01E108F for <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 22:37:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pg0-x236.google.com with SMTP id f12so1205691pgo.5 for <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 14:37:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=yHz4334HQOsXrGKpE5Z5tx48ke0VGubuTBaOLR96E+Y=; b=CLvzsREXIOxtaXA7K2VdpfBko6ZjubEUqxePFjE7YnCXGVLv+3e7/8IlLiWJJAD19+ mGOE7DH7thQAeZjghh/A0dFoxU3P/dJpfeehMZO2DsdUM6U1wEg84Fpp43ZGaI4jj1pO n8P6dRLkgaUkjokxH4r546Vsr2s66z4kQ5Do810NohO/XyADlVLUEjEeMSyxW2y609c3 7lWySKTIBahTQhvFm8INDrbczrKlBjOXhlVxo64evRpsUMNj1RpxzuhqysMJXf2lxokx 6qw/XYpf0znXqne2590P+/QNywk373W0XrWKbeUKn3iI2sZjhAzKDVe5e+Kqyrx96QUy aXGA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yHz4334HQOsXrGKpE5Z5tx48ke0VGubuTBaOLR96E+Y=; b=ZgJtSYLlg5PIwJ8jV5vKwlH0UZnEuQeNbq9T6nZiTg94l03hAkOl7o4DP/pP2eYvOG /N4bt2gm1kWC7zoHeHIej2PIbsAQGa3r7lvm/J8mf2AhSvkF+JXPH4f2ZwxQ2v1jigc0 7MGuLk/YT7kWf5J0vcC8ejvHnwu0Orm2JzP8rvKlTwuQNvlVb2ecouGEGs3RFx3f7sau R2CxDCMHvDqXRwN2sCNptIfGMjGal84QyCgjN7n6Ek9OY9Iv2plC1PNOKDlTMOSo5QUb ttXZlgt0CtITqUaOAzSXhorSFi8wBDvegIEbs6id2kJmpSFDzFR+xyNoS4gAKGPWB8G2 6ucw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mKPuZFasLY5C/QHqGYww976WuOJUJButESVT5B70RDQBsUk9GvR ZBPtfenZyM8ljvM4PnOxeVGBwMkWcGq8fR035Ac= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZoUa+HuQUps7l5F9zPDaTwgrs3zVILjA1j0SMKlF521JEv44WiQoJMpJeyAh7sXRhnq/5IG9kzuN2BnO8rYuo= X-Received: by 10.98.79.152 with SMTP id f24mr520821pfj.143.1512513474242; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 14:37:54 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: <mailto:gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org> List-Help: <mailto:gentoo-dev+help@lists.gentoo.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev+unsubscribe@lists.gentoo.org> List-Subscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev+subscribe@lists.gentoo.org> List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail <gentoo-dev.gentoo.org> X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.100.151.169 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 14:37:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <e91840aa-4241-0094-6733-000bb85cbaca@gentoo.org> References: <1512256684.30000.48.camel@gentoo.org> <20171204202450.GA29072@clocktown> <20171205085940.GA4167@stuge.se> <20171205211610.GA18378@clocktown> <CAGfcS_m3fyfdshqv9ZGkrAxQkKt-kS6SREYyNViJPLD9EAAQMw@mail.gmail.com> <66724fe3-0181-b912-b32a-dd088d51e4fe@gentoo.org> <CAGfcS_npdUvx=-zCfiTiBREb3ZyqXUGYDQLHVazVOPgRQdPJpg@mail.gmail.com> <e91840aa-4241-0094-6733-000bb85cbaca@gentoo.org> From: Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 17:37:53 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: G0Y5S3izEREdUW44xwNs6kjIb70 Message-ID: <CAGfcS_mMoX-nrUNTU1WNgdKK-eS6JTfXwnBCNMDLQei+_ukgpg@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Splitting developer-oriented and expert user mailing lists To: Kristian Fiskerstrand <k_f@gentoo.org> Cc: gentoo-dev <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Archives-Salt: 1a00c33b-f6ce-4e51-b122-818702979e90 X-Archives-Hash: 0e6f9a4f8956286af5515f91f206f336 On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Kristian Fiskerstrand <k_f@gentoo.org> wrote: > > The difference would be that you, in your first example, can demonstrate > some actual abuse. In the latter case you're talking about differences > of opinions of how things are run, which quickly turns into censorship. > I don't see how any of this can "turn into censorship" - it IS censorship from the outset. That is what moderation is. If the topic of the list isn't for ranting about how horrible Gentoo is and why nobody should bother to join the community, then such a post is off-topic. We either allow it (in which case we'll continue to have lots of infighting and a generally toxic environment), or we don't (in which case we ARE censoring the lists). Obviously things work more nicely when people censor themselves, but not everybody does. Honestly, I'm not really a big fan of even on-topic posts from people who have caused a lot of harm to others in private. I'm not sure which is the lesser evil but do we really want a community where we tolerate absolutely any kind of abuse of other members? -- Rich