From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 970981381F3 for ; Sun, 26 May 2013 10:04:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 21AFCE0B5B; Sun, 26 May 2013 10:04:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vb0-f51.google.com (mail-vb0-f51.google.com [209.85.212.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A30AE0B3D for ; Sun, 26 May 2013 10:04:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vb0-f51.google.com with SMTP id x16so4123318vbf.10 for ; Sun, 26 May 2013 03:04:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Il8oL/tRCzjlpxzRSxaNhwz5mmFurOs/CN2ktT1abGs=; b=sdkuasvT/cQkFCJGFB/yLl3MHD3yCiXQ1UoZhlJ6+8itRHhpCxgU/0lR6bNJZWP7hw T1j84dPMzDlcwF2i3DSJHv15opDLUbUfyA53Wt2Xj4lBbjWz4OPBN9GVa7st0omzsVM/ lP15UO+Szlw6T5mjpyDsJpE/ZjmBWtpJx4KIyDmZsNLYGr66DpAd2pRZffc/SnC2f1jR j/4XFlgJ6ndoBZfnwNYoujmanPdVrt/WcEUuq/WOMore1V6wq1ZD87ZiQdMFEALDFh4Q qW+5rbzLPp+rSU2o+1Sv2DvbAo4rne5kmsxOLIpN9fQXkQtaP5qEZgHxrX4mCF/xdO3h v1Hg== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.171.108 with SMTP id at12mr10789904vdc.67.1369562648304; Sun, 26 May 2013 03:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.52.168.233 with HTTP; Sun, 26 May 2013 03:04:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20130526094309.3ed9ac1e@gentoo.org> References: <20130525184830.5bb25483@gentoo.org> <20130526094309.3ed9ac1e@gentoo.org> Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 06:04:08 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: chgkqFCDir7At22piEBBiYOz8wk Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697) From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-dev Cc: "yngwin@gentoo.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 45a1834e-bc53-483e-9063-76e9c0822d61 X-Archives-Hash: 08b9a0f796036abb4be0562bcf36816c On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 3:43 AM, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny = wrote: > On Sun, 26 May 2013 15:23:44 +0800 > Ben de Groot wrote: >> >> Where is this policy documented? > > Nowhere, I think. I've seen it coming in the late thread, looked common > sense enough to me. > > If it is to be documented, I think we should document it in a more > general fashion. To cover all stuff like completions, logrotate and so > on. > As others have already pointed out, we are an organization, not a CPU. We can't make EVERYTHING a rule, and devs should act in a cooperative manner so that this remains the case. Sure, this can be made into a policy, and if things get out of hand I'm sure it will be. I'm not quite sure I see the need yet, as we don't have an example yet of a maintainer not cooperating with the systemd team on the installation of init files (in the present example Ben isn't actually a maintainer, since he stepped down). If Ben wants to boycott systemd by not maintaining any packages that support it, that is his choice. I just suspect that the end result of that will be that he'll end up not maintaining much of anything. I'd hate to see that happen, as it would be a loss for Gentoo. But, frankly, letting any one person dictate the direction of the entire distro by essentially threatening to quit would be worse. Gentoo is about choice - and the nature of choice is that most of the choices it supports are ones that you wouldn't personally make. We do a reasonably good job letting everybody have their cake and eat it too. However, it really isn't an appropriate distro for absolute purists of almost any kind - it reeks of compromise. We package proprietary software (we don't redistribute the copyrighted parts), we more-or-less run on Windows/OSX, we support that X32 alternate architecture that some believe has no useful purpose, and so on. If you really want to influence the battle of the init implementations, then write code, not emails. Maybe that is a wrapper that allows OpenRC to support systemd units. Maybe that is more functionality for OpenRC. Maybe it is something else. However, trying to influence things by just spitting into the wind isn't going to do much but get your face dirty. Sure, devs can quit, but that isn't just a loss for Gentoo. Frankly if your main goal in life is to avoid systemd then you're better off supporting Gentoo which is likely to support that option nearly forever far better than any other distro. Rich