[gentoo-dev] news item: Language of compiler messages etc. in build logs

[gentoo-dev] news item: Language of compiler messages etc. in build logs

[Andreas K. Huettel]

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Dear all, 

in today's council session, we decided to add LC_MESSAGES=C to the base 
profile make.defaults, accompanied by a news item. Below is a draft for said 
news item for review and comments. I will commit the news item and the profile 
change upcoming friday evening. 

###
Title: Language of compiler messages etc. in build logs
Author: Andreas K. Huettel <dilfridge@gentoo.org>
Content-Type: text/plain
Posted: 2013-08-16
Revision: 1
News-Item-Format: 1.0

As of today, the emerge build logs do not use the system locale
anymore but default to English. The intention behind this is to
ease the work of bug-wranglers and package maintainers, who may
have a hard time analyzing localized builds. This change only
affects the emerge build logs, nothing else.

If you really want to have e.g. localized compiler error messages
in your builds, set LC_MESSAGES in your /etc/portage/make.conf.
Note that submitting localized build logs to the Gentoo Bugzilla
is discouraged, and that such bug reports may be closed as INVALID
by the package maintainer.
###

Cheers, Andreas

-- 

Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer 
dilfridge@gentoo.org
http://www.akhuettel.de/


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Re: [gentoo-dev] news item: Language of compiler messages etc. in build logs

[Michał Górny]

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Dnia 2013-08-13, o godz. 22:59:49
"Andreas K. Huettel" <dilfridge@gentoo.org> napisał(a):

> Note that submitting localized build logs to the Gentoo Bugzilla
> is discouraged, and that such bug reports may be closed as INVALID
> by the package maintainer.

Sounds too harsh IMO. And NEEDINFO seems more correct resolution when
maintainer needs more information (English build log).

How about telling instead something like 'maintainer may request
English build log which will greatly delay resolving the bug'?

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

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Re: [gentoo-dev] news item: Language of compiler messages etc. in build logs

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 5:04 PM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Dnia 2013-08-13, o godz. 22:59:49
> "Andreas K. Huettel" <dilfridge@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
>
>> Note that submitting localized build logs to the Gentoo Bugzilla
>> is discouraged, and that such bug reports may be closed as INVALID
>> by the package maintainer.
>
> Sounds too harsh IMO. And NEEDINFO seems more correct resolution when
> maintainer needs more information (English build log).
>
> How about telling instead something like 'maintainer may request
> English build log which will greatly delay resolving the bug'?

Agree NEEDINFO is better, but end result is the same.  Fine with
softening the language.

Bottom line though is that maintainers will only accept non-English at
their own discretion.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-dev] news item: Language of compiler messages etc. in build logs

[Tom Wijsman]

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On Tue, 13 Aug 2013 22:59:49 +0200
"Andreas K. Huettel" <dilfridge@gentoo.org> wrote:

> As of today, the emerge build logs do not use the system locale
> anymore but default to English. The intention behind this is to
> ease the work of bug-wranglers and package maintainers, who may
> have a hard time analyzing localized builds. This change only
> affects the emerge build logs, nothing else.
> 
> If you really want to have e.g. localized compiler error messages
> in your builds, set LC_MESSAGES in your /etc/portage/make.conf.

Could you add something like "For more details w.r.t. localization, see
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Localization/HOWTO" so people can look up
here how to set that particular setting and learn about other settings.

> Note that submitting localized build logs to the Gentoo Bugzilla
> is discouraged, and that such bug reports may be closed as INVALID
> by the package maintainer.

Would very much like to see this part dropped or a bit more polite;
even in another language, you often only need the error message and if
you use a translator like Google Translate you often get an error code
that closely resembles the English error.

As far as I am aware bug wranglers usually translate the error; and
only very rarely, it can't be translated or other parts of the build
logs are needed. I haven't heard of much problems with this yet...

If kept, word it something like "When filing bugs; if maintainers are
unable to translate the necessary information from the build log,
please attach an English build log [1] and then reopen the bug.

 [1]: `LC_MESSAGES=C emerge ...`".

Thanks for the change and thank you very much in advance.

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D

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Re: [gentoo-dev] news item: Language of compiler messages etc. in build logs

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:
> If kept, word it something like "When filing bugs; if maintainers are
> unable to translate the necessary information from the build log,
> please attach an English build log [1] and then reopen the bug.

So, this is why I wanted a vote on whether maintainers had to support
non-English logs.

By all means make the wording nice, but my feeling is that acceptance
of bugs in something other than English should be purely at the
maintainer's discretion.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-dev] news item: Language of compiler messages etc. in build logs

[Jeroen Roovers]

On Tue, 13 Aug 2013 22:59:49 +0200
"Andreas K. Huettel" <dilfridge@gentoo.org> wrote:

> anymore but default to English. The intention behind this is to

intention behind this is => rationale is

> have a hard time analyzing localized builds.

analyzing localized builds => reading build logs in foreign languages


> This change only affects the emerge build logs, nothing else.

the => the language of messages printed in


     jer