From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69F5B1381F3 for ; Thu, 2 May 2013 19:30:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2FC1AE0B0A; Thu, 2 May 2013 19:30:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ve0-f171.google.com (mail-ve0-f171.google.com [209.85.128.171]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37460E0AFD for ; Thu, 2 May 2013 19:30:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ve0-f171.google.com with SMTP id oy12so890790veb.30 for ; Thu, 02 May 2013 12:30:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=usbeEBbroNBSR2N4COcn9kbDrvR6b1s1pnkxtc1f1zM=; b=PNa1tvao4OQcs6LxUWGeUhPDAGuvM4F7hQTxGZNfbCRoqkJqLCMrjQEDQHzk0nQQiJ lpbyVOUY9iFQDMxuh9PXDmTtmm1grJNKwDmCklshMN9F8NLePoPZb0Iq+BzAQ3F0jg19 UTlbXcfYUCkWiBSlCjAueHeD/BroTAT0zPzxt97rPe6rmlokjhouB2SoFVb52Q9701ZL aNNNT4bcFYq0RXiimpWvRXKbiHZLy/XICbGR6TPgrvKITTFN96Wd1ulKCLf/w1ifhniS vrLRxJu10bo0K8+Ii58NJTJluEg2PvSBtTiyOlCgUSvfai8TcGpn6LM5/cZpbRMbR8Qz 7KAQ== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.40.195 with SMTP id l3mr1525274vce.0.1367523007307; Thu, 02 May 2013 12:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.52.168.4 with HTTP; Thu, 2 May 2013 12:30:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <51817269.40707@gentoo.org> <20130502031819.GB20292@linux1> <20130502180519.GA25143@linux1> Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 15:30:07 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: dJrgkdt2ykPG1EqYAfmNrlilj5w Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Making systemd more accessible to "normal" users From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-dev Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Archives-Salt: 9c02c01b-6e91-4dfa-b3ea-175d4775aba2 X-Archives-Hash: d6e28df60f2460fbe1573b2b4e9c4705 On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Fabio Erculiani wrote: > Not all the Gentoo users are as skilled as you (a developer). Having a > programmatic, bootloader agnostic way to swap /sbin/init is useful for > the reasons I explained. Yet I haven't read any solid reason not to do > that. Well, there is no reason that an eselect module couldn't edit the boot configuration, but not with the current way that everybody generates them manually anyway. Keep in mind that any Gentoo user who can't edit a boot loader configuration is limited to booting from LiveCDs. The bootloader is installed and configured manually in Gentoo, following the handbook. Running openrc and systemd in parallel under grub legacy (the config anybody without more exotic requirements and knowledge uses) is just a matter of duplicating a few lines of the config file, renaming the menu item name, and setting init= on one of them. Now you can boot into either from the boot menu. As I mentioned before on this list I'm all for having some packages that actually install a working default kernel, initramfs, boot config, etc. They might even be part of a profile, so that if a user eselects that profile at install-time and does an emerge -uDN world they can then just type reboot when it finishes and get a working system. However, none of that exists now. If it did exist, then manipulating those standardized files via eselect would be quite possible as well (most likely the boot config would be built from some kind of conf.d directory with a script that updates it when needed, and eselect and other packages coudl dump stuff in that conf.d directory as needed just as we do with env.d and so on). I should probably take a few minutes to learn how all this was implemented in Sabayon as it is likely a solved problem. Of course, the handbook would just list this as another option and gentoo-sources and such would never go away. Rich