From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01FEA1382C5 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2018 01:26:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C011BE09C4; Tue, 27 Mar 2018 01:26:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pg0-x242.google.com (mail-pg0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40BF6E09B7 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2018 01:26:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pg0-x242.google.com with SMTP id v26so5457788pge.11 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2018 18:26:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=nxnHvYVH3zgoUIINJeF6YKWtgo7bY0huYkbgldsyIO8=; b=uxsdC8F/AkM8HGTqtZfXUTjlgj7mGC7rbcuTR2YJn1dOZQa9RaL67y37bkZ5FvtnAA 0Hdpw/ESAqsi7imSWqynWD+YGb9LyB3r+/1d75v2d0y2tWkZeWhx/ws78ttDddrqQyUM u4kRmgfYbenFBdm8QsB/oLyeRANYSe2nZzUCbsXbNWQ0/UA6GxetvO3lzwq57nvCH8zq S8lyW6JbrZQ3jgegHvKN/iyJAIFw3lb6EBXj1i8PTRMC9O2lm4SdLeWCBdmXGj/7H1m6 G039S7/8N1JGfe7OQ6GHCe+DpWov/gxoz+RIygOv6N/qfDL8YsMPnCjctc9NvbX+opl3 Iq3w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to; bh=nxnHvYVH3zgoUIINJeF6YKWtgo7bY0huYkbgldsyIO8=; b=V6Kf+sbVQ6uVuLxshb7wjVJSdaLsQK6SmZP+j9jnn2IVdBh510R4M5MxReSuCJ3ehC oIaMkxjgDP3KHMyWJbcaN9Sn5rf1+jVmTh5BlgTLk3R4uWt7dtjsheTPCypXjVSP/liw B3Ki4alf1x4XiL4DmW/gCw/pQorzCIOolNag++kDn7GK9RO/4eBDCqvWbzq9bZl9ndMd OR2Ob8lEoNgYf2jBkdsJrDK1qxKW5ukoOyM10eZAb92koiXyjrCZ4/LMnEOVG9MsFker a13URXFz+yw9xMMECnOY84jw0RJY2/m4/jLLvIM9wDePc43t1mdQ7PHEaTgMxLXBjlTs we2w== X-Gm-Message-State: AElRT7FpxuiQNEYzNC2CyQhsOLlZJKDrSh4Sgu5AjUiCa/AKCp5pBmB4 kh6p+BsYJzUe8f5cLJJ5672fhpsKI4N9h9zVL9GR5w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AG47ELsxrbMkDTqGH4/vKQo6zonrT1Pmv0wkDLt2doq9cdomYTmpVHykDxBxFdPomukcLxk6fVsGL+DivR4iBwoC+nU= X-Received: by 10.101.99.213 with SMTP id n21mr26992987pgv.202.1522113999356; Mon, 26 Mar 2018 18:26:39 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.236.174.22 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Mar 2018 18:26:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4aab96fa-0edb-6a28-791e-28e2103f2a30@gentoo.org> <0818a5b0-cc1e-403f-6c08-1285999de30f@gentoo.org> <20180320160316.GA5785@whubbs1.gaikai.biz> <87605qs3pi.fsf@gentoo.org> From: Rich Freeman Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 21:26:38 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: nZjoZFE4J2YhDL8NMPwfnoHb_f8 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness To: gentoo-dev Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Archives-Salt: 1379eea5-6a2c-4752-b269-6d851eaa2c5e X-Archives-Hash: 2e146cc83343e7f445501c78ad078aba On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 9:19 PM, kuzetsa wrote: > On 03/20/2018 08:08 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > >> >> Actually, I think it is more of a technical constraint. It is >> basically impossible to blacklist somebody on a mailing list, since >> all they need to do is roll up a new email address. >> >> I can think of various arguments for whitelisting or not whitelisting, >> but it seems silly to blacklist. >> > > require active stewardship (moderation, blacklisting, etc.) > > entry barriers to participation (default deny / require whitelist) > > if there are limitations on free speech, someone has to bear the burden. > for gentoo to have list moderation (blacklist approach) which isn't > dysfunctional, the main barrier to resources will be the human resources > end of things, not technical constraints. The tools themselves are easy > enough to use, but people who are willing and able to use them, and with > a clear guideline for how it needs done is a comrel issue which the > foundation needs to sort out. > List moderation isn't the same as blacklisting. With moderation you're effectively whitelisting because the first post anybody makes would be held for moderation, and depending on the approach you could moderate everything. If you allowed new subscribers to post without being held for moderation, then the issues I spoke of would still apply, no matter how much manpower you threw at it. -- Rich