From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970
Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org)
by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60)
(envelope-from <gentoo-dev+bounces-51567-garchives=archives.gentoo.org@lists.gentoo.org>)
id 1SSJl5-0002Ep-FM
for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 10 May 2012 03:09:39 +0000
Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4DF73E06B1;
Thu, 10 May 2012 03:09:25 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail-bk0-f53.google.com (mail-bk0-f53.google.com [209.85.214.53])
by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1C17E09BA
for <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>; Thu, 10 May 2012 03:08:35 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by bkcjk13 with SMTP id jk13so970742bkc.40
for <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>; Wed, 09 May 2012 20:08:34 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date
:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type
:content-transfer-encoding;
bh=dJKvXJnPLZysDcS0xH9Rb6obVyvAC2uj1mD0rVxAk3U=;
b=Bn9QoV6vQlxBmXf5lV3yqF+dyo5OL9Us8OczAR9WwEvfCfN8dZVfT+OFE+EauOZTbo
1qna5xl6fdu15dJGxyL+zPkF5B+YFKOzi+Wr5Kh6s+bgsKj/hqOH3wIJvJn7navfeJmG
uFC7/mddFsI6/v8CZFyKL70SUxY20PqF65imh9mbtjht+7Y1SjSOEhlzhil06cHHcjt+
11zZ2HacnWLDu4VN1f/jlgnbxJPRrbdinrjlSVtIjhjmPm/B12WrgCFUpC6Clgo3NxnR
8wH4vXA/wz/jahB93yUfHsc9mFVbiMCrl3En4AqMIenQ9Gun2G0GzjCDamNfhoMO5hkA
EbYQ==
Precedence: bulk
List-Post: <mailto:gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gentoo-dev+help@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev+unsubscribe@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev+subscribe@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail <gentoo-dev.gentoo.org>
X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.204.128.201 with SMTP id l9mr976482bks.68.1336619314690; Wed,
09 May 2012 20:08:34 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com
Received: by 10.204.226.77 with HTTP; Wed, 9 May 2012 20:08:34 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <4FAB1524.2040605@gentoo.org>
References: <4F85E21C.4060106@gentoo.org>
<jmvr06$96o$1@dough.gmane.org>
<CAGfcS_nPz=6kGg49kwZ-6GGAeB0fixzUQxyyXbU8-bbO0ndKng@mail.gmail.com>
<jn04lk$q2i$1@dough.gmane.org>
<20120423012540.GA2130@waltdnes.org>
<jo0q2n$ebp$1@dough.gmane.org>
<20120505010529.GD22763@kroah.com>
<jo9t9m$aql$1@dough.gmane.org>
<20120509183203.GA27545@kroah.com>
<CAN3AtvrbJ0d6itGchoAMW4VfEVBvGWH=W8heULjJrLzCeF-g2Q@mail.gmail.com>
<20120509223630.GA29213@kroah.com>
<4FAB1524.2040605@gentoo.org>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 23:08:34 -0400
X-Google-Sender-Auth: PWQweIvpnfv07Tf23sELqPoDJUk
Message-ID: <CAGfcS_kMnVx-ppgHe9Es39KvTdgbZ5XYdfKJ4Ar0DhJ2WNBhEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Tightly-coupled core distro [was: Council meeting
summary for 3 April 2012]
From: Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Archives-Salt: 3737fee5-e275-432e-ac58-65955cc1f3cf
X-Archives-Hash: 432829bf9ccaf34a97aecd1612fdaabb
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 9:08 PM, Patrick Lauer <patrick@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On 05/10/12 06:36, Greg KH wrote:
>> On Wed, May 09, 2012 at 08:51:37PM +0200, Fabio Erculiani wrote:
>>> Please stop throwing lennartware at people. FailAudio has been enough, =
thanks.
>> The use of these terms is both rude and totally uncalled for. =A0You
>> should be ashamed of yourself.
> It's reactive. I've been called stupid, conservative, behind the times,
> user of obsolete software that will go the way of the dinosaurs. Why
> should we be ashamed of not agreeing with these funny pranksters?
Look, I have pretty mixed feelings about all the vertical integration.
However, let's at least do each other the professional courtesy of
not resorting to name-calling. We're allowed to disagree, and that's
OK. By all means voice your opinion. However, let's talk about the
issues, and not the people advocating them.
This is just polite behavior. It is also the rules for posting on
this list, especially if you hold a g.o address.
> So why would I give up my freedom to tinker just because someone else is
> writing more code than I do?
I understand your frustration. Really, I do - I often find myself
sharing it. However, in the end people working on FOSS are basically
free to do what they want, and everybody is free to use or support
what they want. I don't like the fact that most people contributing
to Android tend/aspire to be associated with the commercial market for
smartphones, and as a result they tend to embrace pro-developer /
anti-consumer solutions (like not allowing easy blocking of ads, or
randomizing calls to read the IMEI, etc). However, the market is what
it is. The only thing that is really any different today is that
companies are at least releasing the source for the stuff they do - in
the past they'd have just closed it all off so that there wouldn't
even be the option of forking. If I want to I can at least find the
API call to read my IMEI and tamper with it.
I think part of the community frustration is the increasing level of
commercial support around Linux. That has given us much more robust
stuff to play with, but it also has resulted in a loss of control and
change in general atmosphere. In the world of 1999 Linux market share
took a back seat to hackability. In the world of the Canonicals,
market share matters a great deal, and appealing to open source
contributors matters a lot less.
Rich