From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0037138247 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:33:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 87678E0B2E; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:32:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vb0-f49.google.com (mail-vb0-f49.google.com [209.85.212.49]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F5C1E0B1D for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:32:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vb0-f49.google.com with SMTP id o19so1620699vbm.36 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 04:32:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=rke3yO0SW+tIlCzaQBgYknGgftN9HsOBjpBAaofu1lc=; b=QW+T1R5g3tUnzHaey0ilHE149RvC4kEnZcW0wHrRHwU4akvAlW5skmihJP+DBaE/vd XYOSCYmSKuQvcEobnB1N9T7qQwDuvhKy5SmwC3hqXOYx9+KAbvZ03r0z3eT1dXxSR5qe 6OigXgZ6fe8hTJL5+aaTnYog1NHOe1Bpv/sU4XiS5tlo81f/6WZ5zTm+LrhWldOtRGet nlrkeCB7NKaECHaMyg2VaGJ+HyD06x5qKZGjmlag3lk61L9xYfz3dYsmuUA0SEITSxcG O+/p3bRbLBx5zR6VyBzfF6h7JkpbJjup1vfVFUZADtH2/fOlqzLzJigSfHPpjkIXzIZL bbmw== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.33.147 with SMTP id r19mr430350vdi.37.1384432370210; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 04:32:50 -0800 (PST) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.52.108.199 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 04:32:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20131113151012.04145837@gentoo.org> <5283948F.1000409@gentoo.org> <52841023.9010208@gentoo.org> <20131114061328.09136f6f@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 07:32:50 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: t7rmUaRmXoslLwIJp2sZuj0wE94 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Please consider removing use.stable.mask and package.use.stable.mask From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-dev Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 8eb35ee7-0e9d-43ce-bd1e-6b76ed4c5e4b X-Archives-Hash: 9de1e09c4aa05d8c0b31d63a3cd8967a On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 7:21 AM, Ben de Groot wrote: > On 14 November 2013 13:13, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wro= te: >> >> And how is it possible to discuss anything properly in Gentoo? > > That's because we have no proper leadership. We're an anarchistic > collection of people working at cross-purposes at the best of times. > There is no direction, and very little accountability. This seems to be an arrangement that everybody likes except when somebody else does something differently than they would prefer... We have a Council, and any issue can always be escalated there. We also have Comrel, which is a better starting point for cases concerning individuals vs policies. However, so far I haven't really seen any real indications of what the concern is here. 32-bit software on amd64 has always been a kludge, and if anything the latest multilib eclass seems to be less of a kludge. Apparently some argue that there is a better solution being worked on, and that's great to hear. What exactly is the problem? If the eclass were breaking things that weren't already broken and having a real impact on ordinary systems I'd consider that a concern. If it is just breaking things that never worked before then I'd just call it an experimental feature. The problem with having top-down leadership in a volunteer-based organization is that it tends to drive away anybody who doesn't agree with the leader. If a supreme leader said "mgorny has the right solution to multilib - everybody is going to work to implement it" that would probably cause more harm than good. Everybody wants a supreme leader until the leader backs something they oppose. Rich