From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65AFE58973 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 18:38:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B0FC121C254; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 18:38:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-io0-f171.google.com (mail-io0-f171.google.com [209.85.223.171]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BE3921C01E for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 18:38:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-io0-f171.google.com with SMTP id l127so18780948iof.3 for ; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 10:38:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=23JGdWmJDmo+rvwca0DZgCSHVp4CzXLVcqBP0yaXQfU=; b=UwYweHmn/1TTYLKBJyLWhxyWMpu2QTuouFCejvmi5sFfDrMMuz3Ak9TZ5WTkPWHiCA wQQVP8WnQegpra9O163IfRohSGIStrNeHCWUL6CNIcMdK79G0GDf0YudKlk/v4VBDfPS 7u0Rl5THJGkf3CcYT0u3vUscc6smDFR5QtwM6uTVcPRM8RzR1eLPTNzYBnezPTw87fuY bHoiyVo9a/ufXqBtNp650d1dC+k6IX8rMuhTm5jWBSF+9gVFc4k00bw5szkwLDH3fz2c xcIQ7fR74cTcfHCryK/G1turnYpYPl6Z82B9jKrvx5D5ZuMhcZIS1/SRlYEckxDtArTm iKEg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=23JGdWmJDmo+rvwca0DZgCSHVp4CzXLVcqBP0yaXQfU=; b=KpSmUh6/rx4PJXOreEwljQ4xvt6aBtbmVsAIb8Rz7ntoDvM3H/Xn1fQ7d+j2ON8DcS 6u6xJKX7+9eMO7Sp3m23w7uwxp/q+Sfy8K/qS9Igrkak9gkpa2PfLWxM7ZPKaqBwKx6C 3hbG6JunIkoAEYbGzEV5kqW2K6sX1BbbDTN+GweNCSEtRSNR44MzEd0FXaPCiBgpMzo/ nG2WurN6y5LJ0Pg7pdb/thqDfqps0eNsClnGPLj5AfxMnQFQvjvk1fQ/PqHAL+pU00on U2TvVHRRgs7cy8ZyFQXUuCDfrqNtH/LF/FiHUdMTY5pQXJh01Ant2/b8HK3FlzwZY+1A ADjw== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOTWxjHaHNEI3X7MCAWFzb29NaK4OWvbq75yc5sWJeRUXzqLLSR6+We3oLrfBgfY4Svzu5d0u9bRGBdFMA== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.29.209 with SMTP id d200mr34096357iod.27.1455043092915; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 10:38:12 -0800 (PST) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.225.228 with HTTP; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 10:38:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <56B85B06.7020500@gentoo.org> <56B936DB.1010407@gentoo.org> <56B939C4.20804@gentoo.org> <56B978C3.2020304@gentoo.org> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 13:38:12 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: W5_651rPwPqEezwUyRh11P0ZXoM Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Changing order of default virtual/udev provider From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-dev Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Archives-Salt: d5a3ba78-1254-487d-a64d-38b637963847 X-Archives-Hash: a0773560d387ab05051f819830335858 On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Alon Bar-Lev wrote: > > I also mask all systemd files that somehow find their way into my > system thanks to your past decisions as systemd supporter, instead of > installing these only when systemd USE flag is set and adding openrc > USE flag for the systemd users folks. > FWIW those decisions largely predate me, or at least my position on the Council. They're still decisions I support for a few reasons, which I'll outline because I think they add value: 1. Most of this concerns text files, such as systemd units or init.d scripts. Their installation doesn't have much practical impact on the operation of a system which doesn't use them, and having them around makes it easier for users to switch implementations either way without reinstalling half of their system. These are maskable in any case fairly trivially. 2. I've also seen concerns when upstream renames paths to systemd-* for things that used to be stored someplace else. While I know the name tends to concern people, I think that it is beneficial to stick to upstream paths because it doesn't add value to depart from them. One of the things I like about Gentoo is that we follow upstream closely, which means that if you use openrc you have init.d scripts written for openrc and not LSB, and if you use systemd you have systemd units and not wrappers around LSB. I think these are both compelling reasons to maintain the current policy, even if many don't like the direction upstream is going in the case of systemd. As is the case with eudev if upstream ticks off too many people it can be forked. > It may in future that udev will completely relay on systemd and we > left with eudev as the only choice for non systemd-eco system, it is > better to start building this eco-system now, make sure we have a > working solution at any given point in time. I think you'll find that the eudev maintainers have largely created that eco-system already, though others can judge how well they did. This is really just about changing a default, and will not on its own make the eudev experience any better or worse, or more supported or less supported. Largely that is going to be the result of decisions made by many upstream communities, and whether those who want to have strong eudev support in Gentoo help deal with any issues that arise. -- Rich