From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2F371391DB for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 16:28:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C460FE0F25; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 16:28:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vc0-f171.google.com (mail-vc0-f171.google.com [209.85.220.171]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0E4FE0EEF for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 16:28:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vc0-f171.google.com with SMTP id hq11so9053284vcb.16 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 09:28:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=T8xoCyWhShVerUFsrGx34lH25URVEDx4NL/xISwkKYY=; b=ngsWu801OdK7DKwmjW0tmN2IBKQKSaBkQZMzDwPGHiZjDtIjZuaB+YoLJz2S/am1pC y9j+wK+m+Y19io9eFH1njYv13Yq+t6ouMl99oF/6N3UcZ0cZq8/ZOVr89b4ki9qFug0W olqOoJGGD5uZj9en4FLZ6CeZTPvOS+uOg0oF3Bkkou1GJ3/9XWdcWGEULOUaJ3GYl+UF Nl2uHm/Z4TAw2ZEfakY8n9nk20wgtUXWaefFELiI/+Hl9wRVVmlS4BlESRb7XAJAWpgf SI5uoCc/nz6KlMaZHZt41rcODrqXSBblCQOU1nTRnOA4+Il2LGGCletqy3OOCvnEkZmj uujA== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.105.201 with SMTP id u9mr2363644vco.11.1406392107942; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 09:28:27 -0700 (PDT) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.52.8.229 with HTTP; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 09:28:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140726171448.6bf23aed@googlemail.com> References: <53CD6BED.10603@gentoo.org> <53CD8BBA.2010605@gentoo.org> <20140726163242.389162b6@pomiot.lan> <20140726163923.6dd4da71@googlemail.com> <20140726171448.6bf23aed@googlemail.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 12:28:27 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: f22gMWUEFGiJ2qjKqFRe3tbuD-Y Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: don't rely on dynamic deps From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-dev Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Archives-Salt: 1fe3e3d6-ad7b-46d8-a05a-a03a13d875ab X-Archives-Hash: 9e7db39dd99aa2499216e90c6bf23650 On Sat, Jul 26, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 16:05:58 +0000 (UTC) > Martin Vaeth wrote: >> Ciaran McCreesh wrote: >> > Your solution fails spectacularly in the following ways: > >> > * Introduction of :=3D dependencies >> >> This is not a "minor update" in dependencies >> and thus requires a revbump. > > So what is a "minor update", and what are you planning to do to prevent > what you call "useless rebuilds" when := dependencies are introduced? > Picking this to illustrate my point, not to endorse a particular implementation here... This is what I'm getting at when I argue that we don't need a solution to every possible problem. If we only accept solutions that handle conditional dependencies, IUSE changes, new eclass inherits, dep additions, dep removals, etc, then it does seem likely to me that we'll never find a good solution. On the other hand, if we can come up with something that RELIABLY fixes things for 3/4ths of these, then that is probably good enough. I'm not certain at this point that even such a partial solution doesn't exist, but the fact that any particular solution doesn't handle every possible case isn't automatically a reason to reject it. Preventing unnecessary rebuilds is a worthwhile goal, even if we can't get 100% of the way there. If you don't care whatsoever about unnecessary rebuilds then we can simplify things tremendously - just have the package manager default to --emptytree on all operations. Sure, it might cause a "few" unnecessary ebuilds but whether your package manager attempts to support dynamic deps or not you'll certainly have an up-to-date dependency cache. Rich