From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BAF0138330 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2016 15:55:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 96926E0B7E; Sun, 28 Aug 2016 15:54:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qk0-f178.google.com (mail-qk0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A656EE0B76 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2016 15:54:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qk0-f178.google.com with SMTP id l2so118287603qkf.3 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2016 08:54:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=vQ9dglg7ZfA+f6tjhbM7RGeSio3aZ3sNDYB90UEICSs=; b=OWtAI5HII35cbyMhtpl5mzn8kFkfO+J0dNQ6Vms5LYhB8mTftRYpySgcO3oFnwZ6cj 3OBUVGS4i28jXahuN094/2kV9lFDAOL8smdF0FWiTg26yyzqbF08qL3NhNOf8Fml52Fp UExkbjq9goU5EIoERxop8PQQnKEgRkJR979QI2gRLCFt4wkac7ac8sNqsk1eobylWKYl zuQcM+fL3VQmy8ufGh9eOiWkHSnhkYcH2WX/cYPOu74u5sdGp9Z+Rv4cqDe++Olo+QV0 APo7VEKMfhEmaWJG50uG9Xo6l3um2VfJdn0Vcjepac73k2HxjqayfhNIJtDr+OQmkhJQ nB7w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=vQ9dglg7ZfA+f6tjhbM7RGeSio3aZ3sNDYB90UEICSs=; b=TozfvWEaovLY2W9ye0FwlRVK/Oc0P5cbVoyVMQP5V0z+RCJ0roiWwpKr0s1nJUnvqc P1qCf06vofLCgnx3cJCMYfhJQnnbjGfC6OLse6BVnDMn4NmbWlOL8pKxYUQP+2cMOiBG WiSAF3JF8QOcPG5rg83zZIzdGkygfJMcYqE753s+CWeDAmw3lKAtvk3l/yEvSgtdfI25 oNDRe49mSQq1pDr+AkvdWbw7P6I73tc2wAQ0ZRjfQPEfYJNoc2zKnM/nc1OUM9dcJMXv 1LVO42XI91rlyoG+3KoL2LuXsIIyGs+H+DK2XUf26BrB6RyWx66vAXiaWJIuNT3Sxwrt 9Izw== X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwO+iL/koLs985b1L6yjVHmribCeibiPbd8HPl9ZJhBOYmrCfTSWNP65kmh01XGNN6NYXkJ1bz2DrA1Vog== X-Received: by 10.55.201.151 with SMTP id m23mr13738584qkl.268.1472399692607; Sun, 28 Aug 2016 08:54:52 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.140.40.36 with HTTP; Sun, 28 Aug 2016 08:54:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1e8f5885-c308-04fb-3181-e514eabf6eaf@gentoo.org> References: <20160822155808.GA16219@whubbs1.gaikai.biz> <20160823195746.GA21460@whubbs1.gaikai.biz> <24d9469d-fa6f-ffde-797e-420eca01d2a1@gentoo.org> <45fe53a7-626f-62af-398c-2397aedb3064@gentoo.org> <8edbc51b-366b-e32f-4e8d-2ca894f77ca6@gentoo.org> <68746884-3a34-944d-4649-07c282ea38cd@gentoo.org> <2ecb3f7d-4b60-bc34-2673-aad6d2dc5ae9@gentoo.org> <245bf9cd-648f-5ab1-0ff3-8bfe554bd592@gentoo.org> <20160828162110.0b0b473c.mgorny@gentoo.org> <1e8f5885-c308-04fb-3181-e514eabf6eaf@gentoo.org> From: Rich Freeman Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 11:54:50 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: apVKeRrwSePSjmC8RJQFybS9YHg Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: /etc/hostname on gentoo To: gentoo-dev Cc: =?UTF-8?B?TWljaGHFgiBHw7Nybnk=?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Archives-Salt: 6d8245ee-c319-4273-91f9-776bf56967da X-Archives-Hash: c2cfa5d6f00740dcf5d882f2edc6efc4 On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Patrick Lauer wrote: > > (and what abuse? it did exactly what it was supposed to do quite nicely, > until it stopped doing that. Now you need to track state and hope you > don't have race conditions ... ) > You were tracking state before; in mtab. It just isn't a terribly great way to track state, especially when you start getting into complex situations. What happens when a service depends on a fuse filesystem, which depends on a service? And of course all the situations where it is wrong, like when it is mounted read-only. In the past we had kludges like iteration - try to unmount stuff, kill stuff, and then try harder until it all dies, and then mount read-only whatever got missed. In theory today you can actually get messy situations to cleanly shut down as long as you specify your dependencies correctly (which you also need to start it all up). I get that you can run a lot of systems without all the complexity/rigor, but then you're pitting your ability to write bug-free simple scripts against Redhat's ability to do QA on complex scripts. Sure, we aren't beholden to them, but half the point of FOSS is to borrow stuff that works. -- Rich