From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: <gentoo-dev+bounces-71979-garchives=archives.gentoo.org@lists.gentoo.org>
Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80])
by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5EF0138454
for <garchives@archives.gentoo.org>; Sat, 12 Sep 2015 04:56:34 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EEB9221C013;
Sat, 12 Sep 2015 04:56:27 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail-oi0-f49.google.com (mail-oi0-f49.google.com [209.85.218.49])
(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits))
(No client certificate requested)
by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A36D21C009
for <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>; Sat, 12 Sep 2015 04:56:26 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by oixx17 with SMTP id x17so53495923oix.0
for <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 21:56:26 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to
:content-type;
bh=tsZiaCGF1oPaCHet8Vwmnm45WLXNL9CPXngXDMrW4us=;
b=lEnGOygvv9vEEToWMZ2V3GYU80oOHT+SG/MiZT3AyJCVm/slVzu/TDIdUHXFsgDtyF
eCsaI3owspd7FdYhPsfuMzD7K6xE1TGkxX9OwxOzvcmyLrR0gFIYfHlST3ObuP83Tjgv
m33b7zpcgmn9bjUI7uxsTbNNDXaClivjvw1OLFRAMvubO8foOtZIedo1TClnQJ/hgshM
GslMCjH526yGqzu8wRk7mEyiq63rAmAg93DDbAsNYQJRKZODaobNg/i0ElDC2IYnl+IN
srHG9/oe8BwICIkT0L/HGkx54a1VkKCLaP4XPC3B+GLGNGISR8eRTNpNwcMRb2yETfFR
7czQ==
X-Received: by 10.202.78.82 with SMTP id c79mr1890624oib.15.1442033786001;
Fri, 11 Sep 2015 21:56:26 -0700 (PDT)
Precedence: bulk
List-Post: <mailto:gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gentoo-dev+help@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev+unsubscribe@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev+subscribe@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail <gentoo-dev.gentoo.org>
X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.202.197.136 with HTTP; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 21:55:46 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAGfcS_khnhq1a8M6Ku+iuaD2jDgxwfkGc8QXACL2kyOg3EJVOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55EFDDAD.9030502@gentoo.org> <55EFDEC7.1070403@gentoo.org>
<55F00BFD.7050804@gentoo.org> <55F12159.3020506@gentoo.org>
<55F1439E.1070002@gentoo.org> <55F1C8AB.40005@gentoo.org> <55F1CA38.3050302@gentoo.org>
<CAGfcS_m_-gJGBC662TF0H6u23Ns+bUU4_LstLz-65ygiMDWzsw@mail.gmail.com>
<55F298D0.7020702@gentoo.org> <CAGfcS_khnhq1a8M6Ku+iuaD2jDgxwfkGc8QXACL2kyOg3EJVOQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Raymond Jennings <shentino@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 21:55:46 -0700
Message-ID: <CAGDaZ_p-MkuRkyhF-yzC58mAVsZEmWWhaHN36kH3d9T=qWMT=w@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] www-client/chromium gtk3 support
To: gentoo-dev <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134e066919e9d051f85a7b7
X-Archives-Salt: f3e2e4f9-40b7-4af6-aaa8-33e65cd1e1e7
X-Archives-Hash: d985e880cf2dc82c6ed71237b79a88db
--001a1134e066919e9d051f85a7b7
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 5:13 AM, Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 5:03 AM, Daniel Campbell <zlg@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >
> > I like the general 'gtk' flag we generally use to choose *which*
> > toolkit, and local USE flags for specific versions, if they are
> > supported. But in that case, the general gtk flag should be
> > interpreted as the latest version supported, so users don't come
> > across weirdly behaving packages that default to gtk2 (unless that
> > version is the most stable).
> >
> >...
> >
> > For starters, versioned USE flags more than likely don't belong in
> > make.conf's USE variable and shouldn't be global.
>
Personally i disagree with this.
Versioned use flags for widely used dependencies (like a windowing toolkit)
IMO qualify as global USE flags because they have a common effect across
many packages.
That was roughly my proposal.
>
> USE=gui or something like that if the main effect is to have a gui or
> not. That is the sort of thing that SHOULD go in make.conf or in a
> profile. If disabling gtk makes it a console-only application then
> use the gui flag.
>
> USE=gtk if the main effect is to select /which/ toolkit is used if
> more than one is optionally supported. That /might/ go in a make.conf
> or profile, but probably shouldn't in general. It is more appropriate
> for something like the desktop/gnome profile than the desktop profile.
>
> USE=gtk# if you're picking which version to use. That should /almost
> never/ go in a profile (unless you're talking about a testing profile
> of some kind, such as on an overlay), or in a global config unless you
> REALLY know what you're getting into. Users setting this globally
> should expect to run into bugs. The package should default these
> flags to whatever is most appropriate for the specific package.
>
I really like this approach, and I think that having tiers of
(gui)->(qt/gtk)->(qt4/qt5//gtk2/gtk3) would go a long way to keeping USE
flags coherent.
I'd be tempted to even say to not have gtk3 but instead call the flag
> chromium-gtk3 or whatever so that it becomes very difficult to put in
> the global config. However, that goes against our general principle
> of letting the user break their system and keep the pieces if they
> think they know what they're doing. If somebody WANTS to test out a
> gtk3-only system or whatever they should have the freedom to do so,
> understanding that testing sometimes uncovers problems.
>
I actually also think that there should be a single USE flag for building
on gtk3, called gtk3. calling it "(packagename)-gtk3" is a bit redundant,
and also flies in the face of having a single global flag with a coherent
purpose.
Of course any change will need a transition period, news, handbook
> updates, etc. For the person who wants the "just works" experience
> they can pick a profile and it will do the right thing, and if they
> want to tailor things a bit more the USE=(-)gui flag will do what it
> would be expected to do.
>
> --
> Rich
>
>
--001a1134e066919e9d051f85a7b7
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On F=
ri, Sep 11, 2015 at 5:13 AM, Rich Freeman <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"=
mailto:rich0@gentoo.org" target=3D"_blank">rich0@gentoo.org</a>></span> =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">On Fri, Sep 11, 2=
015 at 5:03 AM, Daniel Campbell <<a href=3D"mailto:zlg@gentoo.org">zlg@g=
entoo.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I like the general 'gtk' flag we generally use to choose *whic=
h*<br>
> toolkit, and local USE flags for specific versions, if they are<br>
> supported. But in that case, the general gtk flag should be<br>
> interpreted as the latest version supported, so users don't come<b=
r>
> across weirdly behaving packages that default to gtk2 (unless that<br>
> version is the most stable).<br>
><br>
</span>>...<br>
<span class=3D"">><br>
> For starters, versioned USE flags more than likely don't belong in=
<br>
> make.conf's USE variable and shouldn't be global.<br></span></=
blockquote><div><br></div><div>Personally i disagree with this.</div><div><=
br></div><div>Versioned use flags for widely used dependencies (like a wind=
owing toolkit) IMO qualify as global USE flags because they have a common e=
ffect across many packages.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1=
ex">That was roughly my proposal.<br>
<br>
USE=3Dgui or something like that if the main effect is to have a gui or<br>
not.=C2=A0 That is the sort of thing that SHOULD go in make.conf or in a<br=
>
profile.=C2=A0 If disabling gtk makes it a console-only application then<br=
>
use the gui flag.<br>
<br>
USE=3Dgtk if the main effect is to select /which/ toolkit is used if<br>
more than one is optionally supported.=C2=A0 That /might/ go in a make.conf=
<br>
or profile, but probably shouldn't in general.=C2=A0 It is more appropr=
iate<br>
for something like the desktop/gnome profile than the desktop profile.<br>
<br>
USE=3Dgtk# if you're picking which version to use.=C2=A0 That should /a=
lmost<br>
never/ go in a profile (unless you're talking about a testing profile<b=
r>
of some kind, such as on an overlay), or in a global config unless you<br>
REALLY know what you're getting into.=C2=A0 Users setting this globally=
<br>
should expect to run into bugs.=C2=A0 The package should default these<br>
flags to whatever is most appropriate for the specific package.<br></blockq=
uote><div><br></div><div>I really like this approach, and I think that havi=
ng tiers of (gui)->(qt/gtk)->(qt4/qt5//gtk2/gtk3) would go a long way=
to keeping USE flags coherent.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-le=
ft:1ex">I'd be tempted to even say to not have gtk3 but instead call th=
e flag<br>
chromium-gtk3 or whatever so that it becomes very difficult to put in<br>
the global config.=C2=A0 However, that goes against our general principle<b=
r>
of letting the user break their system and keep the pieces if they<br>
think they know what they're doing.=C2=A0 If somebody WANTS to test out=
a<br>
gtk3-only system or whatever they should have the freedom to do so,<br>
understanding that testing sometimes uncovers problems.<br></blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div>I actually also think that there should be a single USE fl=
ag for building on gtk3, called gtk3. =C2=A0calling it "(packagename)-=
gtk3" is a bit redundant, and also flies in the face of having a singl=
e global flag with a coherent purpose.</div><div><br></div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex">Of course any change will need a transition period, news, ha=
ndbook<br>
updates, etc.=C2=A0 For the person who wants the "just works" exp=
erience<br>
they can pick a profile and it will do the right thing, and if they<br>
want to tailor things a bit more the USE=3D(-)gui flag will do what it<br>
would be expected to do.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
--<br>
Rich<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
--001a1134e066919e9d051f85a7b7--