From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55F14138A38 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 22:21:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1E5AD21C053; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 22:21:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lb0-f171.google.com (mail-lb0-f171.google.com [209.85.217.171]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3AFB21C00F for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 22:21:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lb0-f171.google.com with SMTP id gg13so2152482lbb.2 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 14:21:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=T+AuMzbJnjzUoc1EzsbNKgFlI17MI+9G/TdF8Jh9l+I=; b=Rb4VV4/wSitAZ8NqLvWlUOUpIHptJ6lYXY0xrXQobT0iUR8xpjOeZ0bKGnW1txDLaG 556mrOHn5PPl5EHxii/9uecR1dpSyON5MfgeGwZyU/Yw9bbIYnv9IAmoE7xABgYuyVMF ETgk5PdEqU8CPoeNcd/0V4iJ2pSYc4BPpEKOyqGgTK485ZeGwrVdt213NUQTGtTXD54i mXOq63/lduDQ/sveDv6INRoubVaNTjrlbO0/tEalXSEEXLGXMAkFuujJu8L+huYH35W8 fyigikm7yiwlnEXB2QBddy5vmegf0tOUXEr4IR6pcObUhX+RpLgnDxmc2oum7zpYcvUo IuRg== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.109.112 with SMTP id hr16mr228677lab.38.1360880488835; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 14:21:28 -0800 (PST) Sender: jdhore1@gmail.com Received: by 10.112.143.230 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 14:21:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <511D5D6D.9010608@gentoo.org> References: <511D5D6D.9010608@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 17:21:28 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 6fBqG7uyDcKYPZbseFOUqhWy_4w Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] RFC: Graveyard project From: Jeff Horelick To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec54eea701e6a0504d5b6ae83 X-Archives-Salt: 61bdcd8b-653f-4d07-b10f-b6d78b6de32e X-Archives-Hash: af98aca3b792927e8f4463fd0d38382a --bcaec54eea701e6a0504d5b6ae83 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 14 February 2013 16:55, Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 02/14/2013 04:31 AM, Ben de Groot wrote: > > Hi guys and girls, > > > > We hereby announce the formation of the Graveyard project [1]. It aims > > to provide users with an overlay for packages removed from portage. > > Users are expressly invited to partake in this project, to help > > maintain the graveyard overlay [2]. We will also help organize a > > central space to host distfiles that are no longer mirrored by Gentoo > > and have a broken upstream link. We use the #gentoo-dev-help channel > > on Freenode for coordination, as well as our project space on the wiki > > [3]. > > What exactly is wrong with the current cvs attic space? I've salvaged > old ebuilds and it was a completely painless process. > > Things that have been treecleaned were not just haphazardly removed, > there is typically very good (often security or complete build failure > related) reasons for this to happen. Running an overlay of old, > outdated, unbuildable, security vulnerable software... I know there is > no formal process for rejecting a gentoo project but even this idea > makes me want to get council approval for an extension to the gentoo > project guidelines. > > If users want to salvage things from the cvs attic and put them into > SUNRISE after fixing them up I'm fine with it, but the whole idea of > this is bad for gentoo developers, bad for gentoo users, bad for gentoo > image, I just don't see a single advantage to this and so many > disadvantages. > > Please, this needs to not happen. > > Thanks, > Zero > > > > Please feel free to join us! > > > > 1: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/graveyard/ > > 2: https://github.com/gentoo/graveyard > > 3: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Graveyard > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRHV1tAAoJEKXdFCfdEflK36YP/j3nXMjBUChv4a/HRVRZbK0P > gEPxljhHLueKpebZfZWG2i/G5RoYT5QTzDpi146+xcKxYxypjnY4EfA3O5erXN7g > rF2j8Ij8Xn4OprxDr+3+l3ojAbr+AMsyteU7jQiXEccN0n/8bDLJ1WaKa+hgy46u > pWP7zm+Mi2S2ZYHuDgH7HbVadC1fyD7IB9heRXdfwuPT6lPA1pgu/jOibMZog2Uh > DJlBx1emDyXt3k/noyFuDiumfNdRAwg6BegrWBuQHFNk0m8ZYiYxuuYFic/a8aRh > Yz0MHsZC+FQd4dx3aDkrHNLJLszWHjyrn9shgtVp7aVu/T3rM9H2BHOZCC00ZtHC > sLkMP69167YaE3UToxAA7eHQpylDBa/maJTHGFZVnz5mV8SzeOjX4ikDkfwNEUuS > LpblNRZHuTDLnDWY6SJWFDK++JDqtAnPXWLAEDqEfEluMC76MVbTdhqjqvNBN8zQ > lMjPTmQ/lihKR4a6LsCCkspmlEv6o4pKqWjghytqDAJuqsA1rIgKaInUPvOfCkCR > 5Azl1KyIWL8oUA2OrhZdDvRd4hUlt3mJSEBcx6HC4Oj2NwtmM16zBwSJc3WKt7JC > irk6D2gunFef8z1tcs/SE51lKnW+pFYIMbhyvWtumszZx/dLhu5t78KQe/8vLHnI > S0R5VGULwVZkKVtSiRQK > =mjOM > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > IMO, all these reasons are solved by the statement: "This is why it will be an OVERLAY and there will be no stable packages even if they were stable in the tree before masking for removal". Packages that have tons of security issues or do not build whatsoever will obviously not be added (unless someone wants to give us a patch or 2 to solve those problems). Sunrise is the wrong place for stuff that still works. Sunrise is about stuff incoming to the tree (hopefully eventually) not outgoing from the tree. The reason for this overlay is for packages like: media-tv/ivtv and net-wireless/at76c503a which seem to be masked for removal because they're deprecated and likely still work. Perhaps a user is having problems with the driver that replaced either of these and is still using th old one since it works fine for his hardware. There are tons of good reasons to keep old packages around, yes a few possible bad ones as well, but that's the case with almost anything. --bcaec54eea701e6a0504d5b6ae83 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 14 February 2013 16:55, Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina <zerochao= s@gentoo.org> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 02/14/2013 04:31 AM, Ben de Groot wrote:
> Hi guys and girls,
>
> We hereby announce the formation of the Graveyard project [1]. It aims=
> to provide users with an overlay for packages removed from portage. > Users are expressly invited to partake in this project, to help
> maintain the graveyard overlay [2]. We will also help organize a
> central space to host distfiles that are no longer mirrored by Gentoo<= br> > and have a broken upstream link. We use the #gentoo-dev-help channel > on Freenode for coordination, as well as our project space on the wiki=
> [3].

What exactly is wrong with the current cvs attic space? I've salv= aged
old ebuilds and it was a completely painless process.

Things that have been treecleaned were not just haphazardly removed,
there is typically very good (often security or complete build failure
related) reasons for this to happen. =A0Running an overlay of old,
outdated, unbuildable, security vulnerable software... I know there is
no formal process for rejecting a gentoo project but even this idea
makes me want to get council approval for an extension to the gentoo
project guidelines.

If users want to salvage things from the cvs attic and put them into
SUNRISE after fixing them up I'm fine with it, but the whole idea of this is bad for gentoo developers, bad for gentoo users, bad for gentoo
image, I just don't see a single advantage to this and so many
disadvantages.

Please, this needs to not happen.

Thanks,
Zero


> Please feel free to join us!
>
> 1: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/graveyard/
> 2: h= ttps://github.com/gentoo/graveyard
> 3: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Graveyard
>

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IMO, all these reasons are solved by the stateme= nt: "This is why it will be an OVERLAY and there will be no stable pac= kages even if they were stable in the tree before masking for removal"= . Packages that have tons of security issues or do not build whatsoever wil= l obviously not be added (unless someone wants to give us a patch or 2 to s= olve those problems). Sunrise is the wrong place for stuff that still works= . Sunrise is about stuff incoming to the tree (hopefully eventually) not ou= tgoing from the tree.

The reason for this overlay is for packages like: media-tv/ivtv and net= -wireless/at76c503a which seem to be masked for removal because they're= deprecated and likely still work. Perhaps a user is having problems with t= he driver that replaced either of these and is still using th old one since= it works fine for his hardware. There are tons of good reasons to keep old= packages around, yes a few possible bad ones as well, but that's the c= ase with almost anything.
--bcaec54eea701e6a0504d5b6ae83--