From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B1D41381F4 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 03:15:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D13F121C01A; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 03:14:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vb0-f53.google.com (mail-vb0-f53.google.com [209.85.212.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96B16E084B for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 03:13:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vbbfc26 with SMTP id fc26so3144766vbb.40 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 20:13:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :x-gm-message-state; bh=gswvoQBFnHGRwcc4nLwSldTcKWqKj7EvvM05iAEQNyA=; b=GkDEdEEDw9mzLEF0tkGzwjBHuf38Ef9SWq+/TE7b+ZTIpSXcWC6PpAXQ4dk+Ki0ZAt 7EFepwPYvZKg98EhQJPowlG4AXW6Q+yUo4sadBpM4AflQXZWQc1z3bdV9xa+XTlTav2u zRmPvO45oq820Z74xLLL+GSA0vBmsMHEY4F3YaNJTVdB2LfwiTOMdT7a4uskabv7HuZt atM2QxbVE2pg8MaU+FRKCneDWHBSjORTvEJvD/YFa6XDGt14N/KcExdpq4CW5Trvm/w1 0JbdbpWrTKBGUpXeNkqP040IBAQaQb5sHTpm3Qnf6c+buhtNCXlnb6B1BA9Ct9E9NvxV r+yw== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.95.69 with SMTP id di5mr1312227vdb.33.1345173236561; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 20:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Sender: cardoe@cardoe.com Received: by 10.220.17.198 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 20:13:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120815125832.39c72a82@pomiocik.lan> <20120815110757.GV10705@gentoo.org> <20120815114153.GX10705@gentoo.org> <20120815120131.GY10705@gentoo.org> <20120815140413.GA10705@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 22:13:56 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: eON6S-wWaJJgVAy277tAdSTJCFE Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] remove system set? From: Doug Goldstein To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn3MOOeHTgDZSJolqhBoSrRFYyibGmIBzyDTWcc8oxtiwiR+d7HB/pHq65BUYYROelZ7NlP X-Archives-Salt: 8a49594b-2b20-4da9-aa7c-f5437805424c X-Archives-Hash: 52093acfd6a8e280e8922866bbbc4676 On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 7:05 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 10:04 AM, Fabian Groffen wrote: >> >> From that angle, if you wouldd remove the system set, would you add its >> contents to the Portage ebuild? Portage itself doesn't need a compiler >> or might not need gawk, but whatever it runs (ebuilds) often need so. > > Nope - I'd add them to every ebuild, and only where needed. That's > the whole point. > >> >> Adding libc, a compiler, linker, shell, etc. to almost any every ebuild >> looks pretty much useless to me. Adding deps for all regular tools an >> ebuild uses (bash, sed, awk, cut, wc, ...) seems like error-prone and >> pretty much useless to me as well. So, there is the system set which >> just is the central place where those packages are recorded. > > It is only useful for situations where people want to do something > unusual. Some would argue that this is the only situation where > Gentoo is useful. If I wanted a system just like everybody else's I > guess I'd run Ubuntu, if not Windows or OSX. > > In any case, I do agree that getting there is associated with pain. I > just like to think that getting there "someday" would be nice. I know > that a systematic effort exists in mathematics to try to reduce all of > math to a minimum set of axioms and have everything else be formally > derived. I consider that a thing of beauty, even if I don't care to > read the two volumes necessary to get to 1+1=2. > > Rich > The other point of the system set is to get rid of the chicken and egg problem. For example, virtually every package in the system set ships as a tar, including tar itself. All the compression utilities ship as tars, which need to be installed to build tar (think -z, -j, -J). You need a standard C library to run virtually everything including tar, which you need to extract your standard C sources. The list goes on. -- Doug Goldstein