From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F415C158089 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 20:38:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 75E7D2BC0E5; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 20:37:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (woodpecker.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 358D02BC014 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 20:37:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oi1-f181.google.com with SMTP id 5614622812f47-3aa1c04668bso3761858b6e.0 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 13:37:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxR6wYhLMD+nrSZE3j95SgXTYzp5emV7iKkheBR9p6tVdXSwH5f QENRRZy+l3s+Vw3tA7edq3zio1hWDm2JqPFGjFc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHU80WOQnijGvHdIDfOhEhYhyUS7Y4I98/uIXq85G70g6ZHCy33hNhFKibLlqjumO6ljKKzDcaxF7qv1rSlXlA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:15a1:b0:3a7:25c6:7b85 with SMTP id t33-20020a05680815a100b003a725c67b85mr1103656oiw.47.1694551076328; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 13:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7802203.lOV4Wx5bFT@kona> <20230911082243.65aa85f5@Akita> <4128737.ElGaqSPkdT@kona> <20230911084231.73dd619f@Akita> <5848191c-8708-edfe-0c69-eeced3907b0d@gmail.com> <87zg1szc23.fsf@gentoo.org> <5d96d41de2f7057b42b436783678c8c4.squirrel@ukinbox.ecrypt.net> <87zg1sxu88.fsf@gentoo.org> <6aca04641c105c3fc72910fdbb7b6c01.squirrel@ukinbox.ecrypt.net> <877cowxs1c.fsf@gentoo.org> <87ledbwk5g.fsf@gentoo.org> <20230912083517.65561251@Akita> <20230912120540.5d30dc7a@Akita> In-Reply-To: <20230912120540.5d30dc7a@Akita> From: Matt Turner Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2023 16:37:44 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] last rites: sys-fs/eudev To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 0fd06628-a35a-4d6e-9c34-b92ae0e8c6e4 X-Archives-Hash: f7e0535fe2de26088b5582f8b4e0a6b6 On Tue, Sep 12, 2023 at 4:25=E2=80=AFPM orbea wrote: > > On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 14:51:34 -0400 > Matt Turner wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 12, 2023 at 11:35=E2=80=AFAM orbea wrote= : > > > > > > On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 15:17:00 +0100 > > > Sam James wrote: > > > > > > > Rich Freeman writes: > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 12, 2023 at 9:36=E2=80=AFAM Eddie Chapman > > > > > wrote: > > > > >> in Gentoo. Have any of these 4 maintainers publicly said > > > > >> (anywhere) that they are not interested in being maintainers > > > > >> anymore (which is fine if that is the case)? We're not talking > > > > >> here about a lone maintainer of some peripheral package that's > > > > >> disappeared leaving an orphaned package. > > > > > > > > > > It isn't like somebody is censoring the lists or waging commit > > > > > wars on the metadata.xml/mask file. If somebody was eager to > > > > > maintain it I'm sure they'd have spoken up. > > > > > > > > > >> I'm an outsider to Gentoo development (just a heavy user for > > > > >> over a decade both personally and professionally) so I might > > > > >> have missed something. I just find it puzzling. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not puzzled by what is going on, or by your email, because > > > > > it happens basically anytime a high-profile package is > > > > > treecleaned. Yes, Gentoo is about choice, but somebody has to > > > > > actually do work to make the choices viable. There are always > > > > > more people interested in using software than maintaining it. > > > > > The frustration is completely understandable, but also kinda > > > > > unavoidable. > > > > > > > > > > Repo QA standards don't mean that it has to barely work for your > > > > > specific use case. The package has to deal with compatibility > > > > > issues with stuff you don't use as well, which is why > > > > > maintaining a system package can be hard work. It is usually > > > > > less of an issue for more ordinary applications, which tend to > > > > > have fewer interactions. If it is "good enough" for you as it > > > > > is, then just move it to a private overlay and keep using it. > > > > > You probably would need to override a virtual or two as well. > > > > > Or publish your work somewhere others can use it. > > > > > > > > Yes. We value having a coherent system with decent UX and we have > > > > to choose what we can support. Users are free to override those > > > > choices in local repositories - and if they want advice on the > > > > best way to do so, they're free to ask. > > > > > > > > > > As evidenced by the ::libressl overlay where I am repeatedly > > > copy/pasting changes from ::gentoo that have nothing to do with > > > libressl this is not a very good solution. This is a huge amount of > > > redundant and pointless effort that would be better suited being > > > directly in the ::gentoo repo. > > > > I think most people aren't going to be swayed by "it's really > > inefficient for me to do $xyz outside of ::gentoo" where xyz is > > something that they find useless. > > It doesn't matter if it sways you or not, the reality is that your > argument amounts to forcing people to do a lot of extra redundant work > solving problems that have already been solved out of spite. The lack of awareness here is really something.