From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2CCE158089 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 17:23:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1AD8C2BC082; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 17:23:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ua1-x92b.google.com (mail-ua1-x92b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::92b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E37352BC014 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 17:23:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ua1-x92b.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-7a505727e7eso2195322241.0 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 10:23:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1694539430; x=1695144230; darn=lists.gentoo.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=MN1zQqwNKxcNy4JqLLdW+59dvb2RwnJO9eJXO7X2mv8=; b=GDMwg654rWzHRc64u7t/oIiHWatI9d254uQ5DOIBacmb4sGMT5sTfLgh6JwgZsOyHC MaYIqW5cfcDYetzPUfKGvI4swXFxeAqLGzzNOMG3/652mvuaIt0r2pYYZDbU+IDsHwmS i1XyETC4TrvkZ/Fd0Vy6bON5hVF2VXAnoDUXeLYi4Dx1RB8/PIZN9ZXH66JAE/rBJUac qOfi+GmRM4Nf4SyMYcvEEPV5h+UGQP5Kplf+5WYQxNiAI9zjVOD+qrvE+XfyS9jhm1Uw lVEM5sHeNEbqhGyhVZq//Q5SBffWiVHhWr6NfBPSVJAEbG3HbPbc1XQU4c5qSZDpMs9n vDHw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1694539430; x=1695144230; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=MN1zQqwNKxcNy4JqLLdW+59dvb2RwnJO9eJXO7X2mv8=; b=jyog6DvhNH08XK/76/WkkPs/Wg1vYPFooX5wEUXyr7yuN9LjBtFJkZG/3junfmrqXz qP5VRrSXK74mCywe92mBCu28tWxQ38YvSHd0gJF5b4+9Q1zqQIR7RJ1MwoNH9JXfvbl4 krjyRwq9gxajf/sXjJ/2WHL/C2ju4W5+4/r9qzM7YtLbuVU5DnMCXPOG6cv3OqbD+yY9 UI5H5rGnA4/Os4Yq5h4gRd3djFC542nLyA92YP4fSFbfN2sGDjsb5o809mhnxZ+u05s4 ZaxDJsmFHK2a/+skuS0n/3QsknvRDswCrQrrO3uy0QD4OngG9rWOOF4buuiqFHaDVoC7 RmMw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzcUAee7ZOai/YAW6mnkQVW2GcIa6nwpRXWwc9e+S1a72HY+0Df 70ObxP5e4DqWnzg767f9V7s9OqUnSogCnuYIPRLQdB9c X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGSSBl6br8BpsCITSdcVU0O09HzpHBdoc+6575RH7YHgOQ1PuDyow9vHzAwYT29bP0ufnlgAlL9DDF5MwxSvQQ= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:1359:b0:44e:d6c3:51d4 with SMTP id j25-20020a056102135900b0044ed6c351d4mr12307351vsl.18.1694539430040; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 10:23:50 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a0c:de0e:0:b0:64c:95e3:9ef9 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 10:23:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20230912083517.65561251@Akita> References: <7802203.lOV4Wx5bFT@kona> <20230911082243.65aa85f5@Akita> <4128737.ElGaqSPkdT@kona> <20230911084231.73dd619f@Akita> <5848191c-8708-edfe-0c69-eeced3907b0d@gmail.com> <87zg1szc23.fsf@gentoo.org> <5d96d41de2f7057b42b436783678c8c4.squirrel@ukinbox.ecrypt.net> <87zg1sxu88.fsf@gentoo.org> <6aca04641c105c3fc72910fdbb7b6c01.squirrel@ukinbox.ecrypt.net> <877cowxs1c.fsf@gentoo.org> <87ledbwk5g.fsf@gentoo.org> <20230912083517.65561251@Akita> From: Alexe Stefan Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2023 20:23:49 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] last rites: sys-fs/eudev To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: f5335b3e-7fb8-4a0e-b65f-f591229739bf X-Archives-Hash: 5de82afd60c8816a34addb331ff767b4 All this makes me wonder, what really is the reason for this shitshow. Something tells me systemd and it's shims will never be without a maintainer, regardless of how "popular" they are among gentoo folks. All this seems like intentional crippling of systemd alternatives. I don't use eudev, but I don't like seeing choice being taken away for such paper-thin reasons. The "reasons" listed for the removal are "dead upstream", which is false, and open "bugs", most of which are at most differences in the default behavior. I use a static /dev. That won't just stop working after an update, regardless of how much money changes hands. What does eudev need to do and doesn't do? From discussion in various places, I understand that it must set permissions for a devtmpfs and maybe create some symlinks. Does it not do that? I know that Lennart wants to do everything and do it poorly, but eudev doesn't have to do that too. What's the point of a for then? Overlays were mentioned in this thread. If we remove everything from ::gentoo in favor of overlays, what is the point of ::gentoo then? Do devs receive prizes based on how many useful packages they remove? Don't answer that, we all already know the answer. There is this quote from "the doctor" on the forums that sums up all the insanity: >As for software depending on what /dev you use, maybe he hasn't been payin= g >attention but there is no sane reason any userspace application should c= are how >the entries in /dev are made. There is also no sane reason to brea= k your API >every few months when the good idea fairy comes to call. As for this: >Alexe Stefan writes: >> Must eudev be 100% compatible with all the garbage that gets shoved >> into udev to stay in ::gentoo? I don't see mdev being held to that >> standard. >Please don't top-post. >mdev is not a provider of virtual/libudev and doesn't pretend to be >via its pkgconfig file. What if eudev has to pretend, not because of build or runtime failures, but because of needless pesky pkgconfig checks? Should the default eudev setup include virtual/libudev in package.provided? I think it's better the way it is.