From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 570C0158089 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2023 13:32:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 959212BC027; Sat, 16 Sep 2023 13:32:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oa1-x2f.google.com (mail-oa1-x2f.google.com [IPv6:2001:4860:4864:20::2f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 679192BC01C for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2023 13:32:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa1-x2f.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-1d5dabec19cso1566123fac.1 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2023 06:32:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1694871132; x=1695475932; darn=lists.gentoo.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=1z8Nb58siguBC2yc9OfloCSX2yMuHs6r435sGaEJsJU=; b=huvlpVuAzob11OzGSEdJDJ/8xXcU6AoNoD3G6V/dMc9+De3482fG29yczquv7jz7Pj UmVBRQaoZgKNEFInikhFP0n1ne0t9asZ88HHQ5UHhLfuXZ+Ge/vT7Zt0VfQCw3oeJAWA Eq004TUVvh1gO2Bc2Yl7sKK4mOYWJ5ydSiH4bHGWYKnD8lMlhe6kzTSSPNa7UEuH2fR8 vMtoagfpFsa76T/wRj3nEYyIIsk88H3YnOXecz5+E9hPF36UAf6OglGf0r/pKLuOFsCj 4DeicVdAoG7oSOetaZ7U0gYyaA8FmF8UNgO3A0dZpcg34NPdRbCTeiOAWK39Imj4WQrE m5OA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1694871132; x=1695475932; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=1z8Nb58siguBC2yc9OfloCSX2yMuHs6r435sGaEJsJU=; b=wlFdgAghi6cVtbTTdt5A6d1zDtRFMCpWRFjubGxY6YmC/Ra7udeZ02P2ZMbNb8CvNz zqQ/eQlVBmUthljrhmtLIaxcE6O1nB4NRaVlOoXt9tplN89UWjK7iinyLBX2SdEX2rjr QpNEYNSBQJ28FKuq8yUKmPzlF69jVfhDfc2XddZ7/R6/juz/9l7nDPIWr+TdimtZ3EAo aFzb+T4v08fM1u5DHpKZzJeK+f+ICEpeHrs3ankQ5daEH0QZtjZ2+WjrYq8dqj6xSzbf RyXX6NR8jzUirydxdosB3al4BhsrYNn1mZyeaFHU8qN6CcuFjdhgSAnjVLzOG4UHMWds oXrg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwjGRGXT/DuWtJaioxc30IG35DIzlWEiDQ/nCaos87a/QLB+d+u ev+8CzZZhOlsGhKpKLNOUXLOqqSEBM72lUT+mASvH5Fw X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGdGep28t0RN8CAQ4SSG9MDqjL7aTwn9WuTBi7G8AHoocSV/YFxbrBQdOm8u9jWR1dZbXrnElnQYa/ewc1fB20= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:b409:b0:1c0:fe16:90f8 with SMTP id x9-20020a056870b40900b001c0fe1690f8mr4491270oap.57.1694871132363; Sat, 16 Sep 2023 06:32:12 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a0c:de0e:0:b0:64c:95e3:9ef9 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Sep 2023 06:32:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <7802203.lOV4Wx5bFT@kona> <92dfbb91650e4fe9c82268ccddf8b0ab.squirrel@ukinbox.ecrypt.net> <4270953.Sgy9Pd6rRy@pinacolada> <25616924cf66471fbd1075753551dffa.squirrel@ukinbox.ecrypt.net> <7B549F95-5EEA-4DD3-A046-AA6F2C7B6349@gentoo.org> <5aa46e8fd2c09e8d54c6a9ec71725529.squirrel@ukinbox.ecrypt.net> <6e35ba9b-a55b-4b36-9d79-96faa5fb1dc6@gentoo.org> <0daf33d92cd33094b88c0411a16a63ac.squirrel@ukinbox.ecrypt.net> <50d2d8a5796c8f71b58747d3f23593dd.squirrel@ukinbox.ecrypt.net> <86ttrws520.fsf@gentoo.org> <20230915154041.45777bf8@Akita> From: Alexe Stefan Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 16:32:11 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] last rites: sys-fs/eudev To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 405791b2-ad01-4d3a-b4f7-c1ee9acb2231 X-Archives-Hash: fd82fa5e99f7dd0daf2f331ed6d2c4c4 On 9/16/23, David Seifert wrote: > On Fri, 2023-09-15 at 15:40 -0700, orbea wrote: >> On Fri, 15 Sep 2023 01:19:22 +0200 >> Arsen Arsenovi=C4=87 wrote: >> >> > "Eddie Chapman" writes: >> > >> > > Not aiming this at you personally but this argument has been made >> > > more than once in this thread and I personally don't think it >> > > carries any weight, because it can be levelled at anyone who >> > > raises >> > > an issue about anything. If you don't like it, then just go and >> > > roll your own. >> > >> > ::gentoo is supposed to be a coherent set of packages provided by >> > Gentoo developers, with a reasonable scope. eudev no longer fits >> > into the 'coherent' part of that definition, and there are zero >> > advantages to it over systemd-utils[udev]. >> > >> > The _only_ difference between a sys-fs/eudev::eudev and >> > sys-fs/eudev::gentoo package that would exist if the former were to >> > be >> > made into an overlay is that Gentoo developers would be responsible >> > for the latter. There are no Gentoo developers interested in being >> > responsible for the latter (AFAIK), and there is no tangible benefit >> > to the latter for any Gentoo developer to latch onto. >> > >> > Seeing as there is at least half a dozen people seemingly interested >> > in maintaining eudev, why not just form an overlay? This way, >> > virtual/{,lib}udev doesn't get polluted with implementations which >> > don't fullfil the definition of a virtual provider in ::gentoo, nor >> > with use-flag hacks, but users which wish to use eudev still have >> > access to it, and upstream eudev gets half a dozen potential >> > contributors, which are needed, _badly_. At risk of repeating >> > myself, I'd like to point out again that the only viable approach >> > for >> > eudev upstream to take is to re-fork systemd and find a viable way >> > to >> > stay up-to-date, while fixing up incompatibilities with musl. I've >> > made proposals a few years ago and restated them in this thread. >> >> I just want to reiterate that the overlay suggestion is bad and the >> LibreSSL overlay is a good example of why. The result is most of the >> work is redoing things that ::gentoio has already done by copying >> ebuild changes where actual changes for LibreSSL itself or for >> packages >> not compatible with it is a vast minority of the work. >> > > Many people told you that ::libressl is a waste of time, and you've > proven to us that it is. > > Yet another example of choice being restricted by gentoo. However, there at least is a better reason for not keeping libressl in ::Gentoo, that reason being qt. With eudev, there is even less reason to remove it from ::gentoo. The only maintenance burden with eudev is a couple of commits here and there, mostly in virtuals.