From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71A7F1381F4 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:16:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 20509E093B; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:15:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-gh0-f181.google.com (mail-gh0-f181.google.com [209.85.160.181]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B70DE0905 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:12:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghz3 with SMTP id 3so904004ghz.40 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 11:12:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=eSK/jxwf/sAevit4QLX1d0efnL280hhdyEdpZX8kPm8=; b=KFkEfeleiJ041/be0zDu+zQOCDeqkrpOt572vRtNmuOgH18UWdRH9jbg+MQPPVq0i6 JpBMa+KH1Do9/RqBDnTRCzyyIYgeTl8IedPOt2WtFIRGEP1Czlg49GCgCet1e9YKdyaS S/7NenT1XtIZKQZ+seDQfIEzPCmQjGc6wOhJC0VZII/1vroGR6I8JkPTiPFief/tBBxi 9mTnQGZo56fGvKXxjjVpT6oBaIXGwHk8Z9S7sCknQOKt5Oh0360f1xr1dYFc/5s5Lk6Q ZgAGB2UYw+EjbT3NOD5+loSXg1zoVVziiVj3N1Fd3DFqoCKjGCleclwjulQyqh9TFn62 TLMg== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.130.12 with SMTP id h12mr4988229ann.80.1344967925835; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 11:12:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.194.7 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 11:12:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1344366029.24762.31.camel@TesterTop4> <502377E7.8010803@gentoo.org> <1344535966.2121.6.camel@TesterTop4> <20120809183130.GA6795@linux1> <20120809195727.5d04ccff@googlemail.com> <20120814032416.GA8489@kroah.com> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 13:12:05 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Questions about SystemD and OpenRC From: =?UTF-8?B?Q2FuZWsgUGVsw6FleiBWYWxkw6lz?= To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 97141716-e8a5-43c8-adcb-74708b6f31ad X-Archives-Hash: 9bcd3dc63f598c3e1efd432bd9e51bf2 On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 5:31 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:24 PM, Greg KH wrote: >> On Thu, Aug 09, 2012 at 03:47:19PM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: >>> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s wrote: >>> > >>> > I agree with Greg Kroah-Hartman: I actually like (and want) a >>> > "vertically integrated, tightly coupled way of doing things". >>> >>> Well, if you completely agreed with him you wouldn't be running Gentoo >>> (or Debian, or other general-purpose distros). He advocates that >>> ordinary users should use more purpose-driven distros, where all of >>> this stuff is less of an issue. >> >> That is not what I said, or mean at all. >> >> Given that I'm a Gentoo developer, and have been for a very long time, I >> find it very strange that you would think otherwise. > > I did clarify my post in a reply, linking to your post and of course > stating that you could clarify. Your words were: "I just don't > think it can be done well, sorry, which is why I strongly recommend > tightly-coupled distros for desktops for anyone (like Fedora or > openSUSE or Ubuntu), and Debian or Gentoo only for servers or embedded > systems where you know exactly what you are putting together, and why > you are doing it that way." > > I'm not a big fan of putting words in mouths, so if I misread that > than I apologize. In any case, I can't really argue much with that > statement as-is, although I'd probably carve out an additional > exception for enthusiasts or those who otherwise like to tinker under > the hood. > > If you want strong vertical integration, you probably will never get > as much of it with Gentoo as you might get with a tightly-coupled > distro. You can get as much vertical integration with Gentoo as with any other distro. The problem (and I think this is the point Greg is trying to make) is that it will be harder (not impossible, just harder) if most of Gentoo developers really believe that every single possible combination of hardware, software, init systems, and even OS kernels should be supported. I myself believe that any Gentoo dev should support whatever the hell s/he wants to; I'm just interested in that if some of us want vertical integration, it should be easier to get. Right now every single Gentoo install from the official tree has OpenRC installed, because is pulled in by baselayout, and OpenRC also pulls sysvinit. And I'm not talking about some text files (even if they are executables) in /etc/init.d; I'm talking about executable binaries and libraries in every Gentoo install, even if the user has systemd, and they don't use OpenRC/sysvinit at all. Not to mention that they need to compile both packages if they ever upgrade (which doesn't happen that much, I agree). Regards. --=20 Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingenier=C3=ADa de la Computaci=C3=B3n Universidad Nacional Aut=C3=B3noma de M=C3=A9xico