From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SrZtd-0006jA-QD for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 19:26:54 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 02489E0710; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 19:26:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-gh0-f181.google.com (mail-gh0-f181.google.com [209.85.160.181]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7343AE04C7 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 19:25:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz13 with SMTP id z13so2146566ghb.40 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:25:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8HvFRRKi3syMVN4mxfFmmnLfSgcvJ/qmmiA9J5hALW8=; b=HYZkndxszrqtj2G/hBWTDLyJq0T6VWtbpC/Hcifb51RoZ5zuEWnSLYjY2nQvrPIS7e zOb3cisC7i0wzsS8iDs5MRUJx4F7FLjT4yS9dW92uGcjpqWjN6IviZN0QiPZvITBBQia BM3kO1CIVgNhtr1HtuNyXE2SHiKYYpRwD840Cghp/B/SbzXngi/6MJIdrw/HAnAUp4cq LCEburEs94WjYzgqMLHKgjcWv28/lbLAcuBY5OfJdoQwWhCx+gUfz8JCeCNepvVSXp3B 0Qv+9VEMhKFjxeVcyAeuq8wCsBlZxz2RBSBO8Xdg5fqCxxfWA6BwM0+2dRR8HNvZOL0X 5ZBg== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.175.12 with SMTP id c12mr446929anp.77.1342639545805; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.152.2 with HTTP; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:25:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5005D70D.3060108@gentoo.org> <1342566449.18313.38.camel@TesterTop4> <50063368.8080106@gentoo.org> <20120718101027.55dd00fe@pomiocik.lan> <5006B7A4.6010202@gentoo.org> <20120718161351.GA19044@serenity.o.westcall.spb.ru> <20120718184012.12446404@googlemail.com> <20120718195809.242f7d99@pomiocik.lan> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 14:25:45 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Opinion against /usr merge From: =?UTF-8?B?Q2FuZWsgUGVsw6FleiBWYWxkw6lz?= To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 84b424ab-1d9e-4a78-9d4e-386dba320e20 X-Archives-Hash: 025c99c918f0c6875e2d1ebd7419b739 On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Michael Mol wrote: >>> AFAIK, neither genkernel nor dracut were expected to get tied to the >>> Gentoo update process. Has that changed? >> >> We don't even update kernels as part of the regular update process, >> let alone initramfs systems. >> >> In general you update them together. >> >> The only issue I could see is if problems arise if you have a >> different version of udev in your initramfs than on your system. I >> don't know if that actually causes problems. For the most part after >> the system is booted the initramfs is done its job. > > The most widely touted benefit I've heard for initramfs is its > capability to ease system recovery in case, e.g. a critical filesystem > refuses to mount. With recovery roles come recovery tools, which > quickly extends network-aware tools and a security attack surface. The real benefit is that it allows you to mount any partition, if the tools to mount it live in the same partition. Recovering tools can be put in the initramfs, but I don't think nobody actually thinks that this is the "most widely touted benefit". Again, citation please. > Hence why I tend to feel that if an initramfs is going to become the > go-to solution for bootstrapping userland, it's important to consider > the difficulties of keeping the packed tools up-to-date; it's not just > a bootstrap tool, it's also the first recovery option a sysadmin > faces. If you keep your initramfs synchronized (which is easily done with dracut, for example), that problem goes away. Regards. --=20 Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingenier=C3=ADa de la Computaci=C3=B3n Universidad Nacional Aut=C3=B3noma de M=C3=A9xico