From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD0BB1381F3 for ; Sun, 26 May 2013 15:21:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2BBD7E0B0A; Sun, 26 May 2013 15:21:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ie0-f176.google.com (mail-ie0-f176.google.com [209.85.223.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42F46E0B03 for ; Sun, 26 May 2013 15:21:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f176.google.com with SMTP id at1so16357013iec.21 for ; Sun, 26 May 2013 08:21:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ny74zb/RlGNjKUW1ai49dgRlqRmrlRbcoZ6V0ZNIyo8=; b=R+vDG8/VO5qj8BTXOzf9uEChgfxJLPHpfiBBFfZjDxnN+c70piQSwukS1cL/RLDB+1 gdUz9t+DuQlXM0pct6zSLp0aL+Ie2wjo1rHkjHuC28a1UwvdIedwFlYGbPxodj5EWQ+Z ySO7+ajlYP7e4CmEcpiadCqS2p+uZczi521ZURJeQGhoXsollD9ZRjGJKY5BK0HqEX/o Vgvpr4t2uCSf4v7GuhrPGQ8l55KFa6l832Hjp6VTNlRbmnFab/roAD1g0WdqwmoCbidh enA8L62eWelHRjFkoLimsqtRNd24AUVS7is5eaZmmRVl5tO27UwbJjXfmHx81kPnfGmz pJFQ== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.20.130 with SMTP id n2mr3305261ige.87.1369581680345; Sun, 26 May 2013 08:21:20 -0700 (PDT) Sender: yngwin@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.91.9 with HTTP; Sun, 26 May 2013 08:21:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20130525184830.5bb25483@gentoo.org> <20130526094309.3ed9ac1e@gentoo.org> Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 23:21:20 +0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: _fRb_OpwglW-BQu2H8nOBtQPUvY Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697) From: Ben de Groot To: Rich Freeman Cc: gentoo-dev Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 3a5fb6c6-1dcc-4bd8-85a7-d20ea4c47919 X-Archives-Hash: 59ab181e197385a6ede80e26d034212d On 26 May 2013 18:04, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 3:43 AM, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: >> On Sun, 26 May 2013 15:23:44 +0800 >> Ben de Groot wrote: >>> >>> Where is this policy documented? >> >> Nowhere, I think. I've seen it coming in the late thread, looked common >> sense enough to me. >> >> If it is to be documented, I think we should document it in a more >> general fashion. To cover all stuff like completions, logrotate and so >> on. >> > > As others have already pointed out, we are an organization, not a CPU. > We can't make EVERYTHING a rule, and devs should act in a cooperative > manner so that this remains the case. > > Sure, this can be made into a policy, and if things get out of hand > I'm sure it will be. I'm not quite sure I see the need yet, as we > don't have an example yet of a maintainer not cooperating with the > systemd team on the installation of init files (in the present example > Ben isn't actually a maintainer, since he stepped down). In packages I maintain, I will not be adding any systemd related files. All bug reports requesting such additions will be closed as an upstream matter. > If Ben wants to boycott systemd by not maintaining any packages that > support it, that is his choice. I just suspect that the end result of > that will be that he'll end up not maintaining much of anything. I'd > hate to see that happen, as it would be a loss for Gentoo. But, > frankly, letting any one person dictate the direction of the entire > distro by essentially threatening to quit would be worse. Gentoo is evolving in directions I do not agree with. I am feeling less and less at home here. More and more often it seems I am the minority voice of protest. I am not enjoying this role, and increasingly the thought arises that I should just get out of people's way and find another place that is closer to my ideas of what a distro should be. > Gentoo is about choice - and the nature of choice is that most of the > choices it supports are ones that you wouldn't personally make. We do > a reasonably good job letting everybody have their cake and eat it > too. However, it really isn't an appropriate distro for absolute > purists of almost any kind - it reeks of compromise. We package > proprietary software (we don't redistribute the copyrighted parts), we > more-or-less run on Windows/OSX, we support that X32 alternate > architecture that some believe has no useful purpose, and so on. > > If you really want to influence the battle of the init > implementations, then write code, not emails. I am not a programmer, I am a simple package maintainer. > Maybe that is a wrapper > that allows OpenRC to support systemd units. Maybe that is more > functionality for OpenRC. Maybe it is something else. However, > trying to influence things by just spitting into the wind isn't going > to do much but get your face dirty. Sure, devs can quit, but that > isn't just a loss for Gentoo. Frankly if your main goal in life is to > avoid systemd then you're better off supporting Gentoo which is likely > to support that option nearly forever far better than any other > distro. If forcing Gentoo package maintainers to add systemd support to packages they maintain is your idea of the best option to avoid systemd, then I respectfully disagree. Obviously I have better (and more fun) things to do. -- Cheers, Ben | yngwin Gentoo developer