From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1RQ4u1-0007Gk-Rz for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:21:22 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 354A821C09E; Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:21:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ww0-f53.google.com (mail-ww0-f53.google.com [74.125.82.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE47921C02B for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:20:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wwf27 with SMTP id 27so4258872wwf.10 for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:20:42 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.208.71 with SMTP id gb7mr16102125wbb.7.1321309240810; Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:20:40 -0800 (PST) Sender: antarus@scriptkitty.com Received: by 10.227.42.73 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:20:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4EC15F44.4050205@gmail.com> References: <4EB4FA98.3080201@gentoo.org> <4EBD42EE.4060104@gentoo.org> <4EBEF208.5060500@gentoo.org> <201111121840.16686.vapier@gentoo.org> <4EBFBA75.3030500@gentoo.org> <1321188262-sup-4513@raeviah> <4EC0141E.2030900@gentoo.org> <4EC10B5D.3070204@gmail.com> <4EC14E12.2070703@gentoo.org> <4EC15219.70402@gmail.com> <4EC158FF.7090609@gentoo.org> <4EC15F44.4050205@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:20:40 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: pKPBoe8DpfErx6s9vJpY_HtJ7yo Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: have portage be quiet by default From: Alec Warner To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 38dae659-ecdf-482d-989f-c0e4f54c9e58 X-Archives-Hash: bb19b46d81894b0454adb05d3119c186 On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 10:34 AM, Dale wrote: > Zac Medico wrote: >> >> On 11/14/2011 09:38 AM, Dale wrote: >>> >>> As I type: >>> >>> emerge should show build output by default (unless --quiet-build=3Dy) 4= 2% >>> >>> So far that's the winner. =C2=A0As I posted earlier, people expect thin= gs to >>> work like they have always worked. =C2=A0I say that as a user. >> >> As I've explained in my post to that forum thread [1], you have to >> factor in the "silent majority" that welcomes the change and does not >> express it publicly. A forumor mailing list thread tends to attract a >> "vocal minority", which tends to bias the discussion (or voting results) >> in way that does not give a fair statistical representation of the >> gentoo population as a whole (it excludes the "silent majority"). It's >> part of human nature that those who are displeased with the changed more >> likely to speak up than those who welcome the change. >> >> [1] >> >> https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-6871718.html?sid=3D960ebd269384029= c21e708d8dfa745ef#6871718 > > The same could be said if the poll was going the other way as well. =C2= =A0If the > results are not going to be used or just going to be explained away, then > why have the poll to begin with? =C2=A0 I don't think you started the pol= l but > just saying. . . A common misconception is that input is being ignored because it did not affect the results as expected. I don't expect the poll's current results to change Zac's mind (certainly not at the 60 / 40 it is currently at; that is not a compelling story at all.) You can say that the 'majority wins' on the poll; but the reality of the situation is that only a subset of users actually use the forums and only a tiny subset of forums users actually voted thus far (130 votes total at my reading.) The story is not a compelling one; if it was 80 / 20 or something more obvious and there were thousands of voters you might be able to draw a more powerful conclusion from the poll; as it stands any conclusion drawn are weak at best. > > Again, as a loooooong time user, I expect things to remain like they are > unless that is going to break something or is a must change with no other > option. =C2=A0That does happen from time to time but this is not one of t= hose > times. =C2=A0I shouldn't have to go override settings just to keep it lik= e it > was. > > All this said, if my opinion doesn't matter, that's fine. =C2=A0I changed= my > make.conf already. =C2=A0So now your change doesn't affect me. =C2=A0It j= ust may > confuse the heck out of others that don't subscribe here and know about t= he > change. =C2=A0That is the biggest reason I subscribed here a long time ag= o. > =C2=A0Changes pop up that I wasn't expecting and I tend to like to see th= ings > coming even if it is a freight train. =C2=A0;-) =C2=A0This gives me time = to undo some > things or at least prepare for them. Your opinion does matter; just not enough to change the behavior ;) -A > > Later. > > Dale > > :-) =C2=A0:-) > > -- > I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or = how > you interpreted my words! > > >