On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Eray Aslan <eras@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 10:44:48AM -0400, Alec Warner wrote:
> > [1] Which isn't to say that I would accept 'orders' to commit crimes, or
> > other obviously bad things.
>
> This is the crux of the problem.  There are certain lines you will not
> cross.  I am saying that my line is different and by voicing that,
> hopefully, making you re-consider yours.
>
> > I'm again asserting that this idea is not
> > fundamentally bad. The community has a 'toxic people problem' and our
> > previous attempts at resolution have not really produced great results.
> > Will this also produce great results? Not sure. But willing to try it.
>
> Openness, transparency, inclusiveness.  Those are some pretty
> fundemental values.  Reconsider.  But if you decide to go ahead, I am
> not going to judge you.  You (or the council members who voted yes) are
> not bad persons.  Just somewhat different values - which is surprising
> in a sad way.
>

I think of my aim is just playing a longer field here. I've been a part of
Gentoo for a long time. I've considered leaving numerous
times for a variety of reasons; yet I remain.

I don't disagree that the issue is important, but leaving an organization
really changes the velocity and direction of influence one
can have on it. Traditionally I have not seen external contributors have a
strong influence in Gentoo; so leaving to me implies a
loss of influence. If my goal is to have a good outcome; I'm not convinced
leaving accomplishes it. If I leave, will the council change their mind?
Why would they?

Perhaps you think myself (and other developers) should do more and I think
that is a reasonable thing to advocate for; but I'm also fairly happy with
a timeline
of:

1) We add moderation in ~April.
2) Council election happens in summer (I expect something of a strong
reckoning here, in terms of council makeup.)
3) Council` repeals the previous decision and we undo the moderation[1].

I tend to like this approach because I feel like its how the organization
was designed to work. I think alternatives involve essentially
'protesting'. E.g. I could propose the council discuss this topic at every
meeting. I could try to use my developer-ship to force extra council
meetings (emergency meetings perhaps.) I could collect signatures. I'm
still not convinced these things would be vehicles for change though.

[1] There is of course the risk that this doesn't come about, either
because the same council is re-elected or because the new council chooses
not to repeal. But I accept this risk willingly.


> --
> Eray
>
>