From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 340E6139083 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 19:17:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 82D48E0F80; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 19:17:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ua0-x230.google.com (mail-ua0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29F32E0F4D for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 19:17:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ua0-x230.google.com with SMTP id i92so13290364uad.7 for ; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 11:17:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=scriptkitty-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=2AcbOmcPnpqlghWxvp/B6DjW2lTKNe+DuLgPOHV5zOI=; b=rWzpQa1lqIz+ImBk45sdgp/uN29OhCKnb/lHFRjPMY689UWlQguAPAC/gHAuz2ujug NLYswBpoW+DRnECyDVxESYcKuyYx1D3mnh2iwQhMbaNCNjOGzA0p9K8utAj6viUmhb9o Q4VdW93slcnEiW+39yw4Re+LQVHGGH8mcjl7Wxr54vnyv1njKUX4298HBVQgCE7LmPN+ IoRzpEvOdHOs+K/kmO7SxL7Rt0MX9YoFHLDXmrVDa4JDj4c11EZ9srAJxLxc+oZQ0KSx nBji++xbNc6HXjPAUQMqis2Xdi8n4oDUuczxjvktq725NW0RoXSzfK+YRzWAN3HcvW9d iYGA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to; bh=2AcbOmcPnpqlghWxvp/B6DjW2lTKNe+DuLgPOHV5zOI=; b=JtqbiNSljmMmyqg7SrWSOncMXGojrVsLzWAoY5dRxhZPtCVFfNW0jG8PVT0r6tRRnJ h3oZAs6UZkeXdO/HnW0d4UDwkjMcrsrANaEzFpnkWZGJgdwkf7/KGe68tpCZpwfAauTs 5V5jIs05381C9VCKsa5dwbmcQ6zY8OwL+8RZg+nT2fUCMzukh2dEploV4VEXRT1thPCr YBo+Igbk1pvw+f5LGS/MXJ2lXBQ8Pnwui7Mq1i8BsSK2zqhXwS+7sGhabH21JfLcBGgO d9PLI73pdwTNUQGc469T+AvLxgQnxxdYRUg3mlPf3TwZK6l0YFys3v4ABiwUc1DxdnaS fR/w== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mL5V5tA/TC0Vwra/33XJwvNvV5nQmziiW/Iutl8pE2WhDn8Fu5R 2txyVanx8kWnYqWekY2pK9TEd21OTBI2U7ZZbO0FCg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaU17NTyf2oJ45KJlyvcTndJR+fuZr5vjQ/BxLSyQUwpCW3VL/Hxwy6YtAowHB85ltthJOyGgbAohZrmJGnX84= X-Received: by 10.159.53.67 with SMTP id o61mr100043uao.107.1512415020897; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 11:17:00 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: antarus@scriptkitty.com Received: by 10.176.66.161 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 11:17:00 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [2620:0:1003:410:ed08:916c:b7eb:769c] In-Reply-To: References: <1512256684.30000.48.camel@gentoo.org> <49607e48-f277-6a36-4eef-6509dff001d5@iee.org> From: Alec Warner Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 14:17:00 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: KlxzUR8084TpeYWrN-C4EIDnilg Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-project] [RFC] Splitting developer-oriented and expert user mailing lists To: Gentoo Dev Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c03bb2612eecf055f8890f9" X-Archives-Salt: ea3466eb-7b34-44ed-81b8-d5706ae18fc9 X-Archives-Hash: 9dfed1fc682a8d3102a328e83f245254 --94eb2c03bb2612eecf055f8890f9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 1:51 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: > On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:15:32 +0000 > "M. J. Everitt" wrote: > > > On 04/12/17 00:37, Matt Turner wrote: > > > A user requested I forward this information to the mailing list: > > > > > > http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Publication%20Files/16-057_ > d45c0b4f-fa19-49de-8f1b-4b12fe054fea.pdf > > > https://goo.gl/42A8v7 (short URL of the same) > > > > > > ... and was itself cited a dozen or times: > > > > > > https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=5443947091657980238 > > > https://goo.gl/obvdzh (short URL of the same) > > Anyone paying any attention to current events? Quite many business and > governments have gone out of their way to protect and hide the actions > of abusers. In most causes because they were money makers. I think that > may contradict the article entirely. > Clearly if Gentoo could be successful if millions of people were killed; we would not choose to kill millions of people. Clearly if Gentoo could be successful if dozens of people were harassed; we would not choose to harass dozens of people? I think the advocacy is that people want a community where Gentoo can be successful without needing to harass anyone. A noble goal eh? If the cost of a successful Gentoo is people being harassed because it cannot sustain a safe community; perhaps Gentoo shouldn't exist? -A > Steve Jobbs was a toxic coworker. Most titans in tech would fall more > into toxic category. Ever hear of Balmer raging or Gates? Ellison? > Google any of their names or others with a hole and see what you get.... > > > I refer you also to a former Gentoo developer's talk on "A$$holes on > > your project" ... [1] > > > > [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZSli7QW4rg > > Based on this graph have things gotten better since 08? > https://youtu.be/-ZSli7QW4rg?t=3m > > Most every action since has hurt Gentoo big time. I left from 08 - 15. > I am not part of any of that. Why did it not recover with driving so > many out? That does way more harm than keeping people in.... > > A lesson many have yet to learn... > > As Donnie said conflict is good... > https://youtu.be/-ZSli7QW4rg?t=5m5s > > As Steve Jobbs said in this metaphor > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-Yv-UdsmSo > > > -- > William L. Thomson Jr. > --94eb2c03bb2612eecf055f8890f9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 1:51 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. <wlt-ml@o-sinc.= com> wrote:
On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:15:32 +0000
"M. J. Everitt" <m.j.ev= eritt@iee.org> wrote:

> On 04/12/17 00:37, Matt Turner wrote:
> > A user requested I forward this information to the mailing list:<= br> > >
> > http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Publication%20F= iles/16-057_d45c0b4f-fa19-49de-8f1b-4b12fe054fea.pdf
> > https://goo.gl/42A8v7 (short URL of the same)
> >
> > ... and was itself cited a dozen or times:
> >
> > https://scholar.google.com/<= wbr>scholar?cites=3D5443947091657980238
> > https://goo.gl/obvdzh (short URL of the same)

Anyone paying any attention to current events?=C2=A0 Quite many busi= ness and
governments have gone out of their way to protect and hide the actions
of abusers. In most causes because they were money makers. I think that
may contradict the article entirely.

Cl= early if Gentoo could be successful if millions of people were killed; we w= ould not choose to kill millions of people.
Clearly if Gentoo= could be successful if dozens of people were harassed; we would not choose= to harass dozens of people?

I think the advocacy = is that people want a community where Gentoo can be successful without need= ing to harass anyone. A noble goal eh?
If the cost of a successfu= l Gentoo is people being harassed because it cannot sustain a safe communit= y; perhaps Gentoo shouldn't exist?

-A


Steve Jobbs was a toxic coworker. Most titans in tech would fall more
into toxic category. Ever hear of Balmer raging or Gates? Ellison?
Google any of their names or others with a hole and see what you get....
> I refer you also to a former Gentoo developer's talk on "A$$h= oles on
> your project" ... [1]
>
> [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D-ZSli= 7QW4rg

Based on this graph have things gotten better since 08?
https://youtu.be/-ZSli7QW4rg?t=3D3m

Most every action since has hurt Gentoo big time. I left from 08 - 15.
I am not part of any of that. Why did it not recover with driving so
many out? That does way more harm than keeping people in....

A lesson many have yet to learn...

As Donnie said conflict is good...
https://youtu.be/-ZSli7QW4rg?t=3D5m5s

As Steve Jobbs said in this metaphor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DK-Yv-UdsmSo<= br>

--
William L. Thomson Jr.

--94eb2c03bb2612eecf055f8890f9--