From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95B23138334 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2019 21:10:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 02458E08FA; Tue, 15 Oct 2019 21:10:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-io1-xd33.google.com (mail-io1-xd33.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BE1EE08C2 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2019 21:10:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-io1-xd33.google.com with SMTP id z19so49827264ior.0 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2019 14:10:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gentoo-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9scp1n79EoAvXnXhem073+uNSmPMhbg/4ObZvTAnM0s=; b=qPbNLYv0afbI0Zdj+lybHdpPNSlCDN+zLpbsASz8fItrIlqTqNLIFf5QKlzM7sxoFv 9E6nvX4FYnGXzA44Q92XGmeW3FBz0kxrsE8mXGNfI1xivrcV+4e3pVHCVdozttflkOHt 8wWK2+rCs+Y1M6RoAo/3fqEbB3WPdkfwu3GpFX600ZZkALyvaeXG+E+VpQnriuSWj32J JSYI5eHbFV5vYXFe06QhmgNakWqe07dfa2r1x5ZfOc9PX4wv6dyFtL9G7CvU9fy4+mMI tcFTcMcTQSzcK617YioeU7LDSHzuOvWuF1uKTaT72OfLscyl39y/xDYk7fDLsEQxxXDj x0yw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9scp1n79EoAvXnXhem073+uNSmPMhbg/4ObZvTAnM0s=; b=E7n0rQaAzTSc+thlanV14vR9nmTaT0+tbZadEcssO3h5PpXIM+5qMLt5nJtXeGnmL/ q+Ek2eUnIf3EOWTMmm/W2XLF3NT82SkfyF4tzXb5ZBaHuBm1g0frY2Fv4pRD4fIz1QkM QDd6dy78ZtrwhcaGEHtve+Cw6jw4flyXwKzHnOawa1XNRw/+6CIYbynhcqxUXJRqmNnP L70Z2wuORgx9otPweQoLSY+K4s1fNi8vEq0m2rxeMbnocvWx1pwQcmKZ7hBbugwTvnAb E0IPdYrlP1AtRTGRA6JifHMS/LRjzl4Z3SgeBpUfk3jsIRRgB7kv7gj5eiaj8d/J3svl 7v1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXF10ufo5YmXhr4/auP9DjyPVOKdba7dQpEalWApPjHhvtMOxiJ DL3CP+yPi/oehbI8m3f75yNujZBzimsymOyfuun9tZU9cbo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqytIn5cMQomTv7dUmBor3pX5I9Pbo51fryXTEkQwYcPnHM5VeZNXvXkBxyVMOq5wOWsRZnpUfLcBY2ZExV7otg= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:9284:: with SMTP id s4mr22459292iom.38.1571173829268; Tue, 15 Oct 2019 14:10:29 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7db69bdd30aeaf350f9c70c28abf9d890656d55c.camel@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: From: Alec Warner Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 14:10:18 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] The demotivating process of contributing to devmanual To: Gentoo Dev Cc: devmanual Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f972f50594f96948" X-Archives-Salt: 0822d455-0410-4ffd-bb91-57e529464e64 X-Archives-Hash: 04545b73b5382ff9011ab9b71a1c077a --000000000000f972f50594f96948 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 1:59 PM Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny = wrote: > On Tue, 2019-10-15 at 16:47 -0400, Mike Gilbert wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: > > > Hello, everyone. > > > > > > I'd like to highlight a major problem with devmanual. For a basic > > > policy & developer documentation thingie, it's quality is so-so at > best. > > > A lot of stuff is missing, lots of things are outdated or even > > > incorrect. Not many people are contributing, and those who try quick= ly > > > resign. > > > > Maybe you should join the project? Especially if you are making major > > contributions. > > Are you suggesting that I join the project and start committing without > review, or disregarding review? I have serious doubts on joining > the project if I am repeatedly proven to be doing things wrong -- > whether the issues were serious or not. > > > > > > Most of my pull requests were apparently approved, so they might be > > > finally merged some day. > > > > I believe all devs have push access to that repo, so you could just > > push the changes yourself if there are no reasonable objections. > > I never realized that. > > > > > Minor mistakes happen, and can be corrected after the fact. > > > One tactic here is to just timebound the reviews. 2 weeks between posting a PR and getting a review is too long IMHO. Post a PR and say you will merge it in 72 hours or something. If it's wrong, it can be fixed after the fact as floppym notes. If I'm at work and someone has sent me a patch and the patch is good but there are some minor spelling / grammar fixes they can make I will basically reply pointing out the problems (so they can fix them) but I also tell them to merge once the fixes are applied. This means they don't need to wait for me to "review" the spelling fixes. Obviously there is both trust (in that I assume they did what I asked) and tooling (we have a tool where I write comments like "you spelled foobare wrong here, should be 'foobar'" and they have to click "RESOLVE" on each item; you can't submit a PR with 'unresolved' items open) so there is some pressure to "do the right thing." -A > > -- > Best regards, > Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny > > --000000000000f972f50594f96948 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 1:59 PM Micha=C5= =82 G=C3=B3rny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
On Tue, 2019-10-15 at 16:47 -0400, Mike Gilbert wr= ote:
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote= :
> > Hello, everyone.
> >
> > I'd like to highlight a major problem with devmanual.=C2=A0 F= or a basic
> > policy & developer documentation thingie, it's quality is= so-so at best.
> > A lot of stuff is missing, lots of things are outdated or even > > incorrect.=C2=A0 Not many people are contributing, and those who = try quickly
> > resign.
>
> Maybe you should join the project? Especially if you are making major<= br> > contributions.

Are you suggesting that I join the project and start committing without
review, or disregarding review?=C2=A0 I have serious doubts on joining
the project if I am repeatedly proven to be doing things wrong --
whether the issues were serious or not.

>
> > Most of my pull requests were apparently approved, so they might = be
> > finally merged some day.
>
> I believe all devs have push access to that repo, so you could just > push the changes yourself if there are no reasonable objections.

I never realized that.

>
> Minor mistakes happen, and can be corrected after the fact.
>

One tactic here is to just timebo= und the reviews. 2 weeks between posting a PR and getting a review is too l= ong IMHO. Post a PR and say you will merge it in 72 hours or something. If = it's wrong, it can be fixed after the fact as floppym notes.
=
If I'm at work and someone has sent me a patch and the p= atch is good but there are some minor spelling / grammar fixes they can mak= e I will basically reply pointing out the problems (so they can fix them) b= ut I also tell them to merge once the fixes are applied. This means they do= n't need to wait for me to "review" the spelling fixes. Obvio= usly there is both trust (in that I assume they did what I asked) and tooli= ng (we have a tool where I write comments like "you spelled foobare wr= ong here, should be 'foobar'" and they have to click "RES= OLVE" on each item; you can't submit a PR with 'unresolved'= ; items open) so there is some pressure to "do the right thing."<= br>
-A
=C2=A0

--
Best regards,
Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny

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