public inbox for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Kent Fredric <kentfredric@gmail.com>
To: gentoo-dev <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Changing order of default virtual/udev provider
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 22:03:24 +1300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAATnKFC+-u9j1q8Gy5y1u1xYEThcBMx=hQTwSuV=NoPU-dYLJw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <56B978C3.2020304@gentoo.org>

On 9 February 2016 at 18:27, Anthony G. Basile <blueness@gentoo.org> wrote:
> all the vitriolic attacks i get about eudev come from the gentoo
> community.  outside of this community i get praise.


In case my  earlier messages stating a desire to exercise much caution
gave the wrong impression, I just want to state for the record I think
its awesome eudev exists, and I think its awesome other distro's are
using it.

Just when it comes to "Change the defaults", I want to be certain
about the path we're setting ourselves up for on this very important
component, because here, a change of defaults paves a broader path for
eudev to be a potential leading competition to systemd.

Because if we do that, I feel we must be so sure of ourselves that
eudev can be a profitable choice for at least a moderately long term,
even in the event we get no more support from the systemd codebase.

Having it in tree and having users who know what they're doing being
able to choose their own risk factors and say "yeah, eudev is the
right choice for what I'm doing" is one thing.

But stating implicitly that "Hey, this is the default", this needs to
be the *best* recommendation we can make based on all the other
factors and other defaults Gentoo uses.

Because new users *will* be inclined to pick the default, and
*existing* users of the *current* default are likely to see the
default change, and reason "well, the default has changed, so the new
default is the new best thing", and will be inclined to switch.

And the worst thing we could have is a combination of bad defaults
that leads new users to have a poor first experience because they used
all the default recommendations, and their system made magic smoke
instead of booting.

In short, to change *this* default, it seems pertinent that we *know*
that the change we're making *is* better and a more reliable long-term
choice than the *current* default, and if there is *any reasonable
doubt*, we should delay changing until that reasonable doubt is
expunged.

-- 
Kent

KENTNL - https://metacpan.org/author/KENTNL


  reply	other threads:[~2016-02-09  9:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 178+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-02-08  9:08 [gentoo-dev] Changing order of default virtual/udev provider Patrick Lauer
2016-02-08  9:25 ` Brian Dolbec
2016-02-08 11:12   ` Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-08 11:19     ` Andrew Savchenko
2016-02-08 13:20       ` Dale
2016-02-08 12:52   ` Kristian Fiskerstrand
2016-02-08 12:30 ` Daniel Campbell
2016-02-08 12:32   ` Patrick Lauer
2016-02-08 12:37     ` Daniel Campbell
2016-02-11  2:04       ` Nicolas Sebrecht
2016-02-08 12:46 ` Michał Górny
2016-02-08 12:56   ` Daniel Campbell
2016-02-08 15:01   ` Kent Fredric
2016-02-08 16:00   ` Ian Stakenvicius
2016-02-11  1:46     ` Nicolas Sebrecht
2016-02-11  5:13       ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2016-02-11 16:42       ` [gentoo-dev] " Ian Stakenvicius
2016-02-09  0:47   ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2016-02-09  1:01     ` Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-09 19:26   ` [gentoo-dev] " Mike Frysinger
2016-02-09 22:39     ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2016-02-09 23:38       ` Alex McWhirter
2016-02-09 23:42         ` M. J. Everitt
2016-02-10  5:09       ` Mike Frysinger
2016-02-10 14:27         ` waltdnes
2016-02-10 14:52           ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-10 16:26             ` William Hubbs
2016-02-10 17:09               ` Brian Dolbec
2016-02-11  1:15                 ` Ian Stakenvicius
2016-02-11  1:27                   ` Daniel Campbell
2016-02-14  6:31                   ` Joshua Kinard
2016-02-10 15:25           ` Michał Górny
2016-02-10 23:10           ` »Q«
2016-02-17  2:54   ` [gentoo-dev] " Richard Yao
2016-02-17  6:37     ` Michał Górny
2016-02-17  8:17       ` Patrick Lauer
2016-02-17 10:23         ` Michał Górny
2016-02-17 13:29       ` Richard Yao
2016-02-08 16:18 ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-08 17:01   ` Ian Stakenvicius
2016-02-08 17:31     ` Brian Dolbec
2016-02-09  0:07     ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-09  1:15       ` Alex McWhirter
2016-02-09  7:43         ` waltdnes
2016-02-09 12:19           ` Daniel Campbell
2016-02-09  0:46   ` Daniel Campbell
2016-02-09  0:58     ` Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-09  3:09       ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-09  5:27         ` Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-09  9:03           ` Kent Fredric [this message]
2016-02-09 12:36             ` Daniel Campbell
2016-02-09 12:43               ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-09 19:10                 ` Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-14 15:14             ` Patrick Lauer
2016-02-14 16:00               ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-14 16:17                 ` Patrick Lauer
2016-02-14 19:41                 ` Brian Dolbec
2016-02-14 20:17                   ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-14 20:27                     ` Patrick Lauer
2016-02-14 20:32                       ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-14 20:23                   ` Mike Frysinger
2016-02-14 20:31                     ` Alon Bar-Lev
2016-02-14 20:34                       ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-14 20:34                       ` Mike Frysinger
2016-02-14 20:47                         ` Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-14 20:50                           ` Mike Frysinger
2016-02-15  1:34                             ` William Hubbs
2016-02-15  9:29                               ` Alexis Ballier
2016-02-15 10:01                                 ` Daniel Campbell
2016-02-15 12:11                                 ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-16 17:45                                   ` William Hubbs
2016-02-16 18:12                                     ` Alexis Ballier
2016-02-16 18:34                                       ` Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
2016-02-16 18:35                                         ` William Hubbs
2016-02-16 18:53                                           ` Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
2016-02-16 18:55                                             ` Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
2016-02-16 19:14                                             ` Brian Dolbec
2016-02-16 22:03                                               ` Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
2016-02-16 19:05                                         ` Alexis Ballier
2016-02-16 19:14                                           ` Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
2016-02-16 19:33                                             ` Michał Górny
2016-02-16 19:57                                               ` Patrick Lauer
2016-02-16 20:05                                                 ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-16 20:26                                                   ` Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-16 20:51                                                     ` Brian Dolbec
2016-02-16 22:16                                                 ` Michał Górny
2016-02-16 22:56                                                   ` Alexis Ballier
2016-02-16 23:21                                                   ` Brian Dolbec
2016-02-17  4:09                                                   ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2016-02-16 20:07                                               ` [gentoo-dev] " Alexis Ballier
2016-02-16 22:16                                               ` Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
2016-02-16 19:59                                             ` Alexis Ballier
2016-02-16 22:41                                               ` Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
2016-02-17 12:43                                                 ` Michał Górny
2016-02-17 12:53                                                   ` Richard Yao
2016-02-17 12:58                                                     ` Michał Górny
2016-02-17 13:03                                                       ` Alexis Ballier
2016-02-17 13:39                                                       ` Richard Yao
2016-02-17 13:47                                                         ` Ben Kohler
2016-02-17 13:55                                                           ` Richard Yao
2016-02-17 14:01                                                             ` Ben Kohler
2016-02-17 14:41                                                               ` Richard Yao
2016-02-17 14:45                                                                 ` Richard Yao
2016-02-17 14:54                                                               ` brettrsears
2016-02-17 16:04                                                                 ` Richard Yao
2016-02-17 18:47                                                                   ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-18  2:57                                                                     ` Richard Yao
2016-02-17 13:09                                                   ` Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
2016-02-17 13:32                                                     ` Michał Górny
2016-02-17 13:38                                                       ` Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
2016-02-17 13:42                                                         ` M. J. Everitt
2016-02-17 16:16                                                         ` Michał Górny
2016-02-17 18:12                                                           ` Richard Yao
2016-02-17 23:40                                                           ` Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
2016-02-18  0:19                                                   ` Daniel Campbell
2016-02-16 20:09                                         ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-16 20:39                                           ` Alexis Ballier
2016-02-14 20:31                     ` Patrick Lauer
2016-02-14 20:39                       ` Mike Frysinger
2016-02-14 20:42                     ` Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-14 20:47                       ` Mike Frysinger
2016-02-14 20:56                         ` Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-15  1:29                           ` Alex McWhirter
2016-02-15  2:16                           ` Mike Frysinger
2016-02-15  2:31                             ` M. J. Everitt
2016-02-15  5:28                               ` Mike Frysinger
2016-02-15  5:54                                 ` M. J. Everitt
2016-02-15 12:13                     ` Francesco Riosa
2016-02-15 14:40                       ` Mike Frysinger
2016-02-16  1:05                       ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2016-02-09 11:59           ` [gentoo-dev] " Rich Freeman
2016-02-09 12:14             ` Anthony G. Basile
2016-02-09 12:39               ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-09 13:39                 ` Ulrich Mueller
2016-02-09 13:46                   ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-09 14:23                     ` Ulrich Mueller
2016-02-09 16:57                       ` William Hubbs
2016-02-09 17:28                         ` boot loader in @system, was " Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
2016-02-09 17:24                   ` Kristian Fiskerstrand
2016-02-09 23:48                 ` Dale
2016-02-09 18:25             ` Alon Bar-Lev
2016-02-09 18:38               ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-09  8:43         ` Kent Fredric
2016-02-09 12:17           ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-09 13:06             ` Daniel Campbell
2016-02-09 13:44               ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-09 14:44                 ` Daniel Campbell
2016-02-09 15:04                   ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-10  0:11                   ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2016-02-09 17:18                 ` [gentoo-dev] " Brian Dolbec
2016-02-09 18:02                   ` Rubin
2016-02-09 18:29                   ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-09 23:47                     ` Daniel Campbell
2016-02-10  3:59                       ` waltdnes
2016-02-10  0:24                     ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2016-02-10 17:36                 ` [gentoo-dev] The Beauty of Unix Paul Varner
2016-02-10 17:58                   ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-10 19:30                     ` Gregory Woodbury
2016-02-10 19:51                       ` brettrsears
2016-02-09 13:13             ` [gentoo-dev] Changing order of default virtual/udev provider Francesco Riosa
2016-02-14 12:10             ` Patrick Lauer
2016-02-15 10:55               ` Lars Wendler
2016-02-09 16:33         ` Luca Barbato
2016-02-17  4:00         ` Richard Yao
2016-02-17 10:34           ` Michał Górny
2016-02-17 13:19             ` Richard Yao
2016-02-17 10:52           ` Alexis Ballier
2016-02-17 13:44             ` Richard Yao
2016-02-17 12:25           ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-17 12:58             ` Richard Yao
2016-02-08 18:12 ` William Hubbs
2016-02-08 19:37   ` Pacho Ramos
2016-02-09 19:02 ` Alexis Ballier
2016-02-17  2:42 ` Richard Yao
2016-02-26 12:31 ` Rich Freeman
2016-02-26 13:35   ` Alexis Ballier
2016-02-27 17:14   ` Rich Freeman
2016-03-01 18:17 ` Patrick Lauer

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to='CAATnKFC+-u9j1q8Gy5y1u1xYEThcBMx=hQTwSuV=NoPU-dYLJw@mail.gmail.com' \
    --to=kentfredric@gmail.com \
    --cc=gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox