From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EE0013877A for ; Fri, 8 Aug 2014 15:51:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 38132E08E6; Fri, 8 Aug 2014 15:51:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qa0-f43.google.com (mail-qa0-f43.google.com [209.85.216.43]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E744E08AD for ; Fri, 8 Aug 2014 15:51:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qa0-f43.google.com with SMTP id w8so5679149qac.2 for ; Fri, 08 Aug 2014 08:51:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=M+vm5+81NGC8iY2NHzXHaC7c185KAFyiFRVQZyw0Sr8=; b=HMDFk5dRB3JV46UHYNeMwFMQVJ5Qukuev5It3bfSOsaidxyqpKaNgnabaJJxvvuAU4 0ZjrxDw1aH6tOYO6aSTXXEbI0Gi7fMU0V1ANJ3x5CRd8KXTKDb9zEUPFjN0MmYvA8E/K 3oXVtRoKZq9AwDQ11LlYg+n8XjFbIpUYSwM/6lBN8d2hGuB9W4LSyuVD3CqgCxVrdcJ3 aP8+PHqx2DVEKjl6RciJdt4fTewBMRDnVg91tLcdhr5SzU3vDXUigtvJfDgZCKqzCmTK 2b/ILcNIJyB9kHivuYUzrD4RRHZRLlgF7xaTADpPrQqCwcraSTlGrir/plclpiBwFFIr 3JUw== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.140.70 with SMTP id h6mr38649003qcu.3.1407513082444; Fri, 08 Aug 2014 08:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.140.44.34 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Aug 2014 08:51:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <53e4ccbd.c2b4700a.3bec.2414@mx.google.com> References: <53e4ccbd.c2b4700a.3bec.2414@mx.google.com> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 03:51:22 +1200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] minimalistic emerge From: Kent Fredric To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1132ec324bc3920500202d58 X-Archives-Salt: 7aa61dca-15a6-42da-94f7-7fab82d232d9 X-Archives-Hash: 58a843a0683f3c62f2b52eb5591636c6 --001a1132ec324bc3920500202d58 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 9 August 2014 01:12, Igor wrote: > Most of the maintainers just depend on new > packages not knowing if it's necessary or not resulting in a really HUGE > update that in the absolute majority of cases destabilize GENTOO making it > not operational and WORSE than it was before. You then STABILIZE it again > spending hours and then the story repeats itself. Some of your assumptions seem misguided. Some cases, dependencies are forward specifications from upstream telling us what their software needs to function properly. Failing to meet that requirement could void our support warranty from upstream. Likewise, using 'nodeps' voids your support warranty from gentoo. And just because "it works for me" that doesn't mean its not broken, it just means you've not encountered the broken scenario that the dependencies exist to guard against. Very often upstream will discover a case where X doesn't work in 10% of the problem space. There's no way to communicate to a user what you will and will not do with the software, so its impossible to know what flaws you will and won't encounter, so the dependencies thus declare a minimum for expected working behaviour for *all* a software's functionality, not just your user-specific subset. If you wish to override that decision, you may, but your self-supporting from that point on. TL;DR = just because it works /for you/, doesn't mean it /isn't broken/ and doesn't mean the minimum declaration is "unnecessary" for all users. -- Kent *KENTNL* - https://metacpan.org/author/KENTNL --001a1132ec324bc3920500202d58 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On 9 August 2014 01:12, Igor <lanthruster@gmail.com> wro= te:
Most of t= he maintainers just depend on new=C2=A0
packages not knowing if it's necessary or not resulting in a really HUG= E=C2=A0
update that in the absolute majority of cases destabilize GENTOO making it= =C2=A0
not operational and WORSE than it was before. You then STABILIZE it again= =C2=A0
spending hours and then the story repeats itself.
=
Some of your assumptions seem misguide= d.

Some cases, dependencies are for= ward specifications from upstream telling us what their software needs to f= unction properly. Failing to meet that requirement could void our support w= arranty from upstream.

Likewise, using 'nodeps' voids= your support warranty from gentoo.

And just because "it works for me" that doesn't mean its not= broken, it just means you've not encountered the broken scenario that = the dependencies exist to guard against.

Very often upstream will discover a ca= se where X doesn't work in 10% of the problem space.

There's= no way to communicate to a user what you will and will not do with the sof= tware, so its impossible to know what flaws you will and won't encounte= r, so the dependencies thus declare a minimum for expected working behaviou= r for *all* a software's functionality, not just your user-specific sub= set.

If you wish to override that decision,= you may, but your self-supporting from that point on.

TL;DR =3D just because it works /for = you/, doesn't mean it /isn't broken/ and doesn't mean the minim= um declaration is "unnecessary" for all users.



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