Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Mailing list moderation and community openness

[R0b0t1 <r030t1@gmail.com>]

I really do hate discussing this. I will pray for Gentoo, friends, as
I hope the distribution continues to receive useful contributions.


On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 11:39 AM, Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Now a bunch of community members get upset about Fred being booted out
> without reason.  Fred claims it is because he disagrees with the
> leadership on something.  People start arguing endlessly about
> openness.
>

Explain why the user was removed.

> Ultimately the leaders just want Fred gone so that new contributors
> aren't getting driven away.  They can't explain that because then they
> create potential civil liability for the project.  The problem is that
> the debate goes on for over a year despite intervening elections and
> now this becomes the issue that is driving new contributors away.
>

This is insane. If they sue produce the emails. At least in the US,
the suit will be thrown out, as truth is a defense to defamation.

If I am not a lawyer and as such can not understand the law and my
opinion should not be trusted, then, as I assume you are not a lawyer,
your opinion should not be trusted either. Even if you have consulted
with a lawyer you are not a lawyer and there is no reason to believe
you could have understood what the lawyer told you.

I do not present this as sophistry: for any progress to be made in the
discussion of your hypothetical situation I sincerely think you need
to consider the above. At what point is one's knowledge of the law
enough to act within society?

> What solution would you propose for this problem?  It isn't
> hypothetical at all - I can think of one case in Gentoo's past where
> this happened that I'm aware of, and I'd be shocked if it were the
> only one.
>

Stop using the law as a boogeyman.

Be transparent in why decisions were made. There are no legal concerns
save fair use (the copyright of any published emails) and the
publication of private facts.[1] For a tort involving the disclosure
of public facts, you would need to have no reason to publish those
facts save for the damage they could cause. You may also need to
publish them in a manner far more public than a Linux distribution
mailing list.


To continue the example I doubt anyone would care if it was just a
single Fred, though they may be slightly put off. Multiple Fred (or
related) incidents later it would seem rather strange.

As I have tried to explain my issue with the closure of the mailing
list is not the removal of a user, but the lack of openness with which
decisions are made. Points are brought up in good faith and then
ignored. Requests for clarification may not be greeted amicably.
Overall, this makes it seem like the closure of the development list
is to keep decisions from being questioned. If there were hecklers
asking stupid questions that would be one thing, but that is not what
it looks like to me.


I will note most developers go quietly about maintaining their charges
and make reasonable decisions.

Cheers,
     R0b0t1


[1]: http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/publication-private-facts