From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA1BA1381F4 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 03:27:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F3B58E084B; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 03:27:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-bk0-f53.google.com (mail-bk0-f53.google.com [209.85.214.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21639E07D2 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 03:26:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkwj4 with SMTP id j4so1446697bkw.40 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 20:26:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=aWcX8PJ1TjnihTlBCUSPWVpvcN8qXttgZk7ohalGoKQ=; b=i5okQerlsXFM1uFSa7d0rhZcjFtP6na2MfR064Ivi8wM9hAky/2RDqgeXmD7aaHKX3 vEGfDVI0WjI8bFzamjiLUIPLIPJsExv29KYUGPzR0IsgxplkdNPlkVliGJM9FTRSFIsA 8lh1oavGXL3r75m8yoAt6mF0DwbNj0uyBn3xm8SuMtLfcW7M2h3wq5sZygI62LqrClFM n8fCjPhWVTW76AqcEQQnDRp/zTYdPIPn61uDg9Cg77duw/MD3rccVeLaS8c/PHKAT/uj gejuhwv/dX1o9sjzHB9qvg0G0/P5P2owKy23cudOR/dYbaHK2v5X5uPE4nwiSS5hpqgR AIhg== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.136.205 with SMTP id s13mr1386002bkt.22.1345173992117; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 20:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.205.25.8 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 20:26:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120815125832.39c72a82@pomiocik.lan> <20120815110757.GV10705@gentoo.org> <20120815114153.GX10705@gentoo.org> <20120815120131.GY10705@gentoo.org> <20120815140413.GA10705@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 23:26:32 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] remove system set? From: Michael Mol To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Archives-Salt: 980ca538-5759-44d7-9b0b-6872095f7878 X-Archives-Hash: db6565d8c7fe23efc0bc943b63caa2f8 On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Doug Goldstein wrote: > On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 7:05 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: [snip] >> >> It is only useful for situations where people want to do something >> unusual. Some would argue that this is the only situation where >> Gentoo is useful. If I wanted a system just like everybody else's I >> guess I'd run Ubuntu, if not Windows or OSX. >> >> In any case, I do agree that getting there is associated with pain. I >> just like to think that getting there "someday" would be nice. I know >> that a systematic effort exists in mathematics to try to reduce all of >> math to a minimum set of axioms and have everything else be formally >> derived. I consider that a thing of beauty, even if I don't care to >> read the two volumes necessary to get to 1+1=2. >> >> Rich >> > > The other point of the system set is to get rid of the chicken and egg > problem. For example, virtually every package in the system set ships > as a tar, including tar itself. All the compression utilities ship as > tars, which need to be installed to build tar (think -z, -j, -J). You > need a standard C library to run virtually everything including tar, > which you need to extract your standard C sources. The list goes on. Bootstrapping is an inherently curious problem. Most systems are built upon the systems they themselves build, but getting to that self-hosting state always requires some unclean solution. (E.g. the first C compiler couldn't have been written in C. The first x86 assembler wouldn't have been written in x86 assembler. Etc.) Ideally, you'd want as narrow a bootstrapping channel as possible. Assuming things start off statically linked, what's the sequence for going from an empty chroot to stage 1, 2, 3...? What are the starting conditions? -- :wq