From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D4113800E for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:59:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7C4FDE0586; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:58:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-bk0-f53.google.com (mail-bk0-f53.google.com [209.85.214.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DB90E00D3 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:57:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkwj4 with SMTP id j4so3087448bkw.40 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 09:57:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cEcrGlw0SDg1DJKh3Nc9uQEHHSzGJyme25J8bpDoj/4=; b=GiLoZ6azwUOfz+WTZqZvAR18WT0mPBWnZfBv9JfLqLkq2L60A4On195jljqNAddt/7 Ua44aefmp/ol8VvAZEnD9RwgvqZS9z79/ZJeEi78U6khecTDEFB7Dtn2f+X/NwUBXuGv Em3sdJo80zdiPMaLxUTIBck26SwHGwBLoQw5bg03llfRgXocQTiJe2v3NhXC0cun4r07 8nSFiaTIe3Vl/8NClJBE9GNHZAUsmA751kX/dIQHdr6TizgV1KtIHInFLRJLIOw2IG5c yDvUqFglsN0E4Iah+14h9FUATb6JKWUaVXFuWJuYmawMIev8aw5smJh9uIU1bQ/N0NMT fevw== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.145.82 with SMTP id c18mr4087821bkv.133.1343667479138; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 09:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.205.33.10 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 09:57:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120730182824.0b679d8a@pomiocik.lan> References: <3146937.NEprMvEFLe@mephista> <20498.15988.225230.614853@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <501285DC.2020207@gentoo.org> <201207271324.48571.vapier@gentoo.org> <1343413763.7511.1.camel@belkin4> <5012F712.7030806@gentoo.org> <50169BB8.4030408@orlitzky.com> <20120730164141.1573fadd@pomiocik.lan> <50169F35.60504@orlitzky.com> <20120730182824.0b679d8a@pomiocik.lan> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 12:57:59 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] UTF-8 locale by default From: Michael Mol To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: db54b826-0b7a-46c7-a0c8-c61ad4c4d10e X-Archives-Hash: c40fd00d1ccd29b0abc2656cee936ac0 On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: > On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 10:50:29 -0400 > Michael Orlitzky wrote: > >> On 07/30/12 10:41, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: >> > On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 10:35:36 -0400 >> > Michael Orlitzky wrote: >> > >> >> On 07/27/12 16:16, Aaron W. Swenson wrote: >> >>> >> >>> No user will be happy with whatever we decide to use as a default. >> >> >> >> The defaults should be what's best for the most people, with a bias >> >> towards safety. Why don't we just take a survey and choose the most >> >> common utf8 response? >> > >> > How can you take a survey like that? How will you ensure it actually >> > hits the majority? How will you define the majority? >> > >> >> Considering that the alternative is to force everyone to change it >> manually, you can do it however you want and it'll be an improvement. > > My point here is that you want the thing to change. So you first try to > convince people here to change. We practically did a small survey here > and in the result we didn't agree on doing the change. > > So you're saying we should do another survey on another group, hoping > that this time the result will be on your side. > >> 1) Create a webpage with a bunch of options, count the results >> >> 2) Ask the g.o mailing lists, count responses manually >> >> 3) Use google docs like the website survey that went out a few days >> ago >> >> It won't hit everyone, but no survey ever does. As long as you get a >> large enough unbiased sample, it doesn't matter. And anything would be >> an improvement, so it doesn't matter anyway. > > It depends on who the 'unbiased sample' is. Are you interested only in > opinion of Gentoo users who visit the website? Who sync once a day? > Once a week? Who follow Gentoo Planet? Who participate in the forums? > > We can create the survey and announce it everywhere. But it still won't > catch many old-time Gentoo users who can actually have something > opposite to say. It won't be unbiased. I was thinking about this, and I suspect that a survey period of 1-2 months is likely fine. It should also be enough to scoop up people who run servers and monitor those servers for security updates. --=20 :wq