From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1QS9Rd-0000bR-Jh for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 02 Jun 2011 15:04:21 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 864841C1D9 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2011 15:04:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wy0-f181.google.com (mail-wy0-f181.google.com [74.125.82.181]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E9671C073 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2011 14:43:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wyi11 with SMTP id 11so897170wyi.40 for ; Thu, 02 Jun 2011 07:43:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=0/nndC5Bi4hCj4n4AsQLVg3ekh1k6QVGlhXue2c6k70=; b=FE5B20zhNTbu/yDpxi9uqeUfv8aTm1H+9JNXkTCz9dIwxwlEUM5F/XPKFE2cAPUMR4 3Ad4c3NUdn8d2eqNgch0Qr4d2ViSCKMKSdnNqBzshX7H8gQJ0bCRnxf0/7upsozqtbAV rFtm6qN5fbmHYsFris5CPd+heqtSSfFOUYSbI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=Wc2GzUVXdpVVCuQvZv0b3wne1pyZbom5QKMnMGBoRkePuiQp+ZXlbvPLfyTHEWua1y mT1iRI8++czRKoqWkmAGOK+2U+K9BAILZNkdZmMtg0cCs2nc4LUKxJ07jKxMZFQ1nb5U 3FXN6nzgb0he/QOQF0gArSolVw30Vw8IWIcaM= Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.55.67 with SMTP id t3mr808497wbg.90.1307025809303; Thu, 02 Jun 2011 07:43:29 -0700 (PDT) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.227.146.4 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Jun 2011 07:43:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4DD24EBE.5060002@gentoo.org> <201106011739.45691.dilfridge@gentoo.org> <201106011824.06028.dilfridge@gentoo.org> <4DE6CB57.5080709@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 10:43:29 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: U0ZOIrNr3Iw9kADd3BgtcG14mms Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: RFC: better policy for ChageLogs From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Archives-Salt: X-Archives-Hash: 95d477e6835f143895692f003eba77c7 On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 7:05 AM, Nirbheek Chauhan wrote: > On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:59 AM, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto > wrote: >> (c) has irked enough developers and users that people pushed council to >> update the policy about the use of ChangeLogs. > > > Yes, and I'm surprised that these same developers pushed towards a > negative solution (kick productive people out) rather than a positive > solution (move to git). Getting developers to follow policy and common sense is a people problem. Git won't fix that - at best it might help with this particular issue but not the next 14 that will come up. I'd highly recommend listening to Donnie's "Assholes are killing your project" talk. I think we've come a long way from some of the problems in the past. I think that speaking up on lists when you don't like a policy is healthy for the distro. However, until policy is changed it must be followed - especially for something as trivial as this. The second-to-last thing I want to see is productive developers quitting Gentoo over policy frustrations. The last thing I want to see is a culture where anybody just does whatever they want to. Such a culture turns off far more potential future developers than it keeps around. Gentoo is already a very hands-off distro - just about any dev can do just about whatever they want to improve things and we all tend to go along with it as long as they're making a positive contribution. OpenRC is stable, some people are talking about getting systemd working and others swear that they'll never run it, others spend time making Gentoo work on everything from Win32 to BSD to Plan9, and others look to improve the hardened/selinux experience. The number of rules that I'd consider "restrictive" in Gentoo is very small compared to more top-down organizations - we all do what we want and the users get to choose with some basic safeguards to preserve the mainstream experience. There really is no reason to pitch a fit over the few rules we have in the big scheme of things. Rich