* [gentoo-dev] Re: openrc 0.12 - netifrc/newnet mix-up
@ 2013-12-11 17:51 99% ` Steven J. Long
0 siblings, 0 replies; 1+ results
From: Steven J. Long @ 2013-12-11 17:51 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013, Steev Klimaszewski wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-12-10, Rich Freeman wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 10, 2013, Steev Klimaszewski wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2013-12-09, Rich Freeman wrote:
> > > You're thinking with your x86/amd64 hat on here.
> >
> > Actually, I probably just underquoted. I am well-aware that there are
> > issues with ARM, hence my previous suggestion that it might make sense
> > to vary this by profile.
> >
>
> Definitely - but then we have to do everything in the profiles, and at
> least for ARM, there are currently 6 profiles, and we're considering
> introducing a 7th (neon), and we will need to add aarch64, which will be
> at least 2 more. I suppose we could do it in the base arm profile...
I don't think it would make sense to remove networking from any profile.
Far better to develop a 14 profile using dhcpcd and make that work, without
affecting current users. The virtual could be used to add any higher layer
desired, but would not be required.
> > If it actually had collisions with other network managers I think
> > there would be more of a case for removing it.
> >
> > After all, we stick openrc and portage (the PM) in the stage3 and you
> > don't exactly need those in order to run Gentoo...
Yup. Which is steev's "functional" point, so you seem to be in agreement.
> While you don't need those specifically to run Gentoo, the point of the
> stage3 is to have a workable base to start with. So people are very
> much free to yank out openrc and put in, say, systemd, and rip out
> portage and add in paludis, if they so choose, and make those available.
> And from the traffic I've seen on the systemd list, it looks like they
> are adding some sort of networking to systemd itself as well, so we
> probably will need a virtual at some point. My specific point of the
> email though, was you saying that a stage3 in general aren't functional
> - but they are - they are the very base of a functional system, and you
> simply add things on top, or replace things with your preferred methods.
> A stage1 or a stage2 isn't particularly functional.
Agreed. There's no real point in a stage3 that doesn't support some sort
of networking. It's fine to change over, but again that should be done
with a new profile, not by randomly removing netifrc USE default. The
latter may not be "correct" on a purist level, but it's a darn sight
better than breaking installs, and is only a transitional measure.
The transition is much easier to handle as a profile change, for an
end-user, and the experimental profile facilitates modification of base
stages and working on them, without breaking the current setup.
After all, if someone wants to setup a Gentoo install *without* networking
they are very much doing a specialist thing, and can deal with it
themselves. So I don't think we should give too much time to that
use-case, in terms of implementation effort; staying out of the way when
the user tells us to is all that's required, and that's easy: do nothing,
or in this case, don't force any dependencies on higher-level network
managers, unless required for correct functioning.
Regards,
steveL
--
#friendly-coders -- We're friendly, but we're not /that/ friendly ;-)
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2013-12-03 21:11 [gentoo-dev] openrc 0.12 - netifrc/newnet mix-up William Hubbs
2013-12-07 5:52 ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-08 22:25 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-09 14:50 ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-09 15:28 ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-09 19:56 ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-10 1:33 ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-10 10:31 ` Steev Klimaszewski
2013-12-10 11:23 ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-10 18:46 ` Steev Klimaszewski
2013-12-11 17:51 99% ` [gentoo-dev] " Steven J. Long
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