From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14666138334 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2018 17:16:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A2C1AE07D4; Sun, 5 Aug 2018 17:16:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from avasout05.plus.net (avasout05.plus.net [84.93.230.250]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E65D8E07A9 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2018 17:16:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.6.147] ([212.159.46.162]) by smtp with ESMTP id mMdkfSE0H05ijmMdlfMRqz; Sun, 05 Aug 2018 18:16:27 +0100 X-CM-Score: 0.00 X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=QJJGuDDL c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=RuViaDnnNG9rfPLW4VJocg==:117 a=RuViaDnnNG9rfPLW4VJocg==:17 a=13zjGPudsaEWiJwPRgMA:9 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=7mOBRU54AAAA:8 a=Rtot5AfV3oJR0pOMxY8A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=hR5n0LtEGFvD5n56U70A:9 a=fzAVXZ97p1Ea4Yr8:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=VyAYG6SvmRcK5brkzPkA:9 a=ONNS8QRKHyMA:10 a=wa9RWnbW_A1YIeRBVszw:22 Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Idea for a new project: gentoo-libs To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <20180623025046.djmsv44moxuqkv6t@proprietary-killer> <1529738520.21177.5.camel@gentoo.org> <20180623073030.wdrjfrcv3swqwfkx@proprietary-killer> <77476CA5-628E-44D2-8BC1-63718DA34B12@gentoo.org> From: "M. J. Everitt" Openpgp: id=BA266E0525CFAB101523351B4C30334F93C22371 Autocrypt: addr=m.j.everitt@iee.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFngC8gBEAC8/nQZrVrr8v0kaD4OLw8UftKfPQFEMGY/rnFA81M9IvdyPP8/8u/+9AGc DEN3i/LRvW0KUBdKIngcUY/p1M/sJqBspMOBaoOLp6K53/2uxcGXw62TulQJU+7a37Jukv2r HNSyZzM6II0myConmJa8ja1HfsiVoqDrqNigBF+Sts1kqG4xg8YeyOl1Tk+LZwC+ukzzutE9 pbpIL2snu5I6a6RNi9DtbB9FZKzkbXx8TlpMXrcorNryOLQHPRw6tir5Z8kpetiJgoEpKGBX botDOWLVW+s9XnwPzAFmL03gH+3reY+LfrQWQTDphfZIp75caZQUicQHpc1NUr+8bLr3n79A FCPY3CfWriGn17aqaaXDFfeYPJIlH8UmOXI41JqR47C5eYFbocA8A4k7cGVAdKJFWLy51165 dt7qZyvUQc/olzrZOrvoiWXA8ELg7pqxxObM4kl0502IHz9kb6Lt712HvfjH5yAP8zTYpetn sCPR9aVVSQsRgluNrQFlKpVmUXbeBLjw05UBEunS6prDwXOyZdn7t03LSOlK2nBGM+gtxg8l /0Nb1saYMGGN8qtO4RLFRiRBc20kNz01cC89PKRIXYlW9dRZNH1zebIUCAg+S4hSmmV4uvaZ XRADb2G+ZZ2jj9cNTTnI+X1/a19S8XjBZ4z+9+Hty4nhoB6fawARAQABzSNNLiBKLiBFdmVy aXR0IDxtLmouZXZlcml0dEBpZWUub3JnPsLBgAQTAQgAKgIbAwUJA8JnAAULCQgHAwUVCgkI CwUWAgMBAAIeAQIXgAUCWeAgogIZAQAKCRBj58Z59NQx3awfD/4wMWDKcu0/s2KQhz5JUBfi v+PdY7xxJj77gPhHximyjWW8O1pu3H280HsL2751AuUyQ2JNWYUtbr8FIvk8dLBnjLmXQwu/ JhkPyAoW/3UcpSCjGkwZ0B/amHs9/dC99Y9Fk1lYDqm1FEmSmqnXHFg7tgdKpMF5eV7B0moS ISL0IKSOCMPHE1u/0bSwUVXbzuqWOLbWRcqH819aVsZG+unrQf87R0RKG5rI7OEkdtCDO+8D KlOPqo1i+Un9YvzdktNymHJtoHGljIWLoo5QMciHH5JX+y7bGH1mHfmnsqFsHiPQFkun3/xV qk9hI0qvl1q5ykX/UVZMmXaMVwWcpiLz4pHnN92v9BxyAESKJkj9fh9CoR958nmoLzhmVzdf pXHBlI4E5uYaKeCPbGNHZX0WoHaStf0f/AkuLSQj3g53VDWvDBt+qfnzBkGwYSGhM6tOQX5T Cz0WP8cZa6ghyzTy+z4jwT8/O9umurExdRl2D0VNdT4RPoCFs/jlFXFbnlGPC2FjvWfMEF8j 9FiPq19NPPRd8WiQYgRYehFFoDqNOzIu3LbshV2CPdVN5fsRD1lwOGlrmiPWQrWlfKoUK98G M5MfAcSJVkixsfoajZlH5lk48kBQsMnLxut2pmRiahtsEV0af+FHLs1ZuYngk0kJh5q+UyZi 4exXsLvHC/rPbs7BTQRZ4AvIARAA2MeaJF9ma6ngqTogwle2dHfAzilYpWSgt7Gej9APzidO mVfyoXIBsd3UMNQErFkRZNk/U0vyy0x9Azs3z0gqOo5E98veiN3VOf8g9vhTfxfHcVTz6JwX 9ggzO//iRPvUH3NKfEvpLNn8gkOvN9cTyh0k9Vrj28vBpD3HWWHJlU5wVrpFUpE4RFXDOpMD aAQAPkArzxXmc6CtnQfupkpZPe+mplDoEjFmw1F6fLp/09a+K0m97xZU0eG/tYWqItRpTHnY 8d92wFHNx1RdYyII8y2kCDNwp+E6oEX/DP5WspKGzgf/f9zci61v192wpXiqzoE9D+quFo9v z6Ywn8NCfqOUs+dnwZ9xtQXOHBU5lZi0avkg3HYQ1lArSkUHzlO4k5AslEu5AXqEOKe9Mo4q nYX/HK3xQEPwEJji2T8SR9IDPfAIYjSK6iMw7LT4ugCwVemNHmDSuWdZDjtbVMRdNtsWu0ar i04FQ+8cBovQHQyrVVYVduuazlBioX7dN8go17eue2C3hTr8xJhB4dX7/bfVAay1LeCWyaGr 15nfkAH4wXp11sSU482GwRnEEL5TeYDgHHtd+FyiYm3Wd5T5NKgPM5XpzIhm4MvLmWMhmC4O nLc5gZj2aQ7IWi2W5FlxSSu0VrC0q6hoNB0rCsz1GBKDBrLX+03hZrMRC0TeZZ8AEQEAAcLB ZQQYAQgADwUCWeALyAIbDAUJA8JnAAAKCRBj58Z59NQx3cwiEACpDgKf6ZlEx27TWzoV73v/ FV0Zy2vz+pqIIw2BKb1PbuEJnluZnWQ/u9nVCRoIQKDU5IHS+DoR76iTOUTiVmE+9ZltAHYi 9QRAHlwWdFkZqkoTNvrHw7pA0oOhgqC3k1n3FpAbT8GFZeIKRqgWCacTMBepMJRlz46nQ/CX 4Eh2HwrJrbgJJaMpNqoh+hJee7ev/TXV+OFLc310tJSZhSPXo9NkWGHu631RjOJl4Xf0vE4t Zy4aNE94NjMUOILjmaTp78HBUbsgqZrdl/wu2HbNNF5IKWwnyYRAeF9l73JuQwXLMrVQxbqP P9XiQqgKT4CF3xxdiXCS3Hq5s3OQLouFg03LGHyMAMtsP+8PepndmL/i79s/Mp0WYcJK6XAm Mi+Xknfi5Lay1oAjYu8UvGOWo5nOq62saN/bXG8/m+qqiueMOTDGXHZfklBglW5p6VYJd2eY W1teykJa7oGAOsiePl+z4UllNTBQVzhRPfmc/O3Yg6JJbISqHw84IWDINVUAN6wldIay83Tr gc1aAXDepgf6aNDbbWiQ+BBBJkAOGYTG9pnAaNMUKM65dkN7WufV2fwJHn900f2vzKyFYkKF bIiuODXBTfJG1yvMUQIgnDBYUBuBdDXB3NhOG8nHOJSQXTdI+Ma9ZMkxmVCxV9RXFPYBO8ji nurTf8FtGwnuig== Message-ID: <9cbe543d-54af-a824-809e-dc94020fb43f@iee.org> Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 18:16:18 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.2 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="UdBj09iYA20HRxHWVIZtBmemXz90GGJQQ" X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfEpq/Sr+Nq+VYB90mGf/KMhjVIBMTCavutjWD1RSpm7tm8AbqQdgWNfHInbhYE5+R5Z3J001kIGWSV9TCL+UPqyJR+2QU5IFV7F3Bfnr+PU4jR6DAWUH T/KVUnX+cLawSuAwhn00ECO2RnVtfB7cGr6Py188Yof2AAsMUeWKo87F2LBSxEjHru3pKhY3kXUN/Q== X-Archives-Salt: ca21f104-6ac6-4701-8833-085d01eee5d0 X-Archives-Hash: 0ae3de7971dc7caa93e6d36075dd3c0e This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --UdBj09iYA20HRxHWVIZtBmemXz90GGJQQ Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="p5m2ryo21yeooJLbhMY9wPxZkF4l1hLh8"; protected-headers="v1" From: "M. J. Everitt" To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <9cbe543d-54af-a824-809e-dc94020fb43f@iee.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Idea for a new project: gentoo-libs References: <20180623025046.djmsv44moxuqkv6t@proprietary-killer> <1529738520.21177.5.camel@gentoo.org> <20180623073030.wdrjfrcv3swqwfkx@proprietary-killer> <77476CA5-628E-44D2-8BC1-63718DA34B12@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: --p5m2ryo21yeooJLbhMY9wPxZkF4l1hLh8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2441201DD4FD0921E5ED875C" Content-Language: en-GB This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2441201DD4FD0921E5ED875C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 05/08/18 18:01, Alec Warner wrote [excerpted]: > > > On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 12:45 PM, Richard Yao > wrote: > > > > On Jun 23, 2018, at 6:59 AM, Alec Warner > wrote: > >> >> I suspect this might be better done in the Linux foundation >> itself as they have staffing for core components that everyone is >> using. > This would put decision making power into the hands of > bureaucrats. I would rather it remain in a community of volunteers.= > > > Meh, it doesn't hurt to ask there about interest (they certainly fund > development of other components.) Its not like they have to accept, or > that declining somehow inhibits this development. > > Part of my frustration is that seemingly "anything open source related > can be held in Gentoo" and I'm somewhat against that as I feel it > dilutes the Gentoo mission. We are here to make a distribution, not > maintain random libraries. If you want to do that feel free; but I > don't see a need for that work to be associated with Gentoo. > =C2=A0 Maintaining a distro is increasingly becoming more a case of fixing upstream's shortcomings, as they move towards completely-bundled packages instead of thorough testing. Creating distribution packages, especially in a source-based distro like Gentoo, requires quite a lot of testing, and a lot of collating user feedback (in terms of bugs) to make sure that the packages built do actually *work*. So no, whilst it does seem on the surface to be a dilution of effort, if it reduces the overall effort to generate robust packages, and distributes it across multiple distros and developers, whilst co-ordination and communication may prove a new challenge, I think this is complementary to what everyone is trying to achieve. --------------2441201DD4FD0921E5ED875C Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 05/08/18 18:01, Alec Warner wrote [excerpted]:


On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 12:45 PM, Richard Yao <ryao@gentoo.org> wrote:


On Jun 23, 2018, at 6:59 AM, Alec Warner <antarus@gentoo.org&g= t; wrote:


I suspect this might= be better done in the Linux foundation itself as they have staffing for core components that everyone is using.
This would put decision making power into the hands of bureaucrats. I would rather it remain in a community of volunteers.

Meh, it doesn't hurt to ask there about interest (they certainly fund development of other components.) Its not like they have to accept, or that declining somehow inhibits this development.

Part of my frustration is that seemingly "anything open source related can be held in Gentoo" and I'm somewhat against that as I feel it dilutes the Gentoo mission. We are here to make a distribution, not maintain random libraries. If you want to do that feel free; but I don't see a need for that work to be associated with Gentoo.
=C2=A0
Maintaining a distro is increasingly becoming more a case of fixing upstream's shortcomings, as they move towards completely-bundled packages instead of thorough testing. Creating distribution packages, especially in a source-based distro like Gentoo, requires quite a lot of testing, and a lot of collating user feedback (in terms of bugs) to make sure that the packages built do actually *work*.

So no, whilst it does seem on the surface to be a dilution of effort, if it reduces the overall effort to generate robust packages, and distributes it across multiple distros and developers, whilst co-ordination and communication may prove a new challenge, I think this is complementary to what everyone is trying to achieve.
</my2cents>
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