From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46D4C158089 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2023 06:40:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4F39C2BC128; Wed, 13 Sep 2023 06:40:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yw1-x112f.google.com (mail-yw1-x112f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::112f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28B0C2BC014 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2023 06:40:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yw1-x112f.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-59b50b4556eso53520027b3.1 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 23:40:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1694587243; x=1695192043; darn=lists.gentoo.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:date :message-id:autocrypt:openpgp:from:references:to:subject:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=WfOE/82qNbCw2KeI1Mf30iqxWMddgk24X4xpwNF2C+Y=; b=kQenHwifyXFendrlMbjRoQOXzm+lcA3lSueKNd71QQ9RhtP4KpVfqDtYMPOnRaouMQ t7BnCQUXPn/epRyN3+HSWEdCjoq7j6BJbPoioCuqtzijs+2Yjw4P3yPnXSFTlg2EzywR 2KIxf6bbnYA+HbGJrq+TmvQ+3gP2grhXFZdImrf46QyIkgjF/ibF+5Rya3wjAsUZsw7I cKoHqaA4xnH1EGlWWyq7P2HsI20pSiDKbJqWZ6ukBnbF3kxKxsiCLrFzWNMIfsihAfMD X6r/NESdkB3QGCCYynz6EZ7g6I6Fx4al+tq4pxfv6pnS4yPUKwRorkBTyiBR4qlH4p21 vPdw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1694587243; x=1695192043; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:date :message-id:autocrypt:openpgp:from:references:to:subject :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=WfOE/82qNbCw2KeI1Mf30iqxWMddgk24X4xpwNF2C+Y=; b=krbxSpzjdrnvBpnKNqT3WJtxzGHDVC9Dsx7HCaGvZhSc7wMC/yjstGQQ6AJlHbX3l5 8cfpv+N2Eu74v9uSz9OWcwyj5w6qODijEeNWxslMTKaawP1xzylP+VhOR/M2fufiLFsD cGiKSFVSzOu8uA1fIWb6XMbJANruxLUMvVvt5LOIYJJhrcOYgmQ95jIdZbArRWauJIaN pXWUO4OEyz2vXodGFaPQMLC8INKItqAT/TtpS/k62FF079BhNAOXjbjHzr1qT8Fi4RWo +D8cBmVciJ6n+uY9GSRjLutfKwaYI+NwQwB9t8ChlTX//Zb8aV2m0hXBiNJJXGXoBjxH NXOw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxTLpMOjBWlHyGe/49mO1PpEjhSFMc3okZFuTvU/ZvTc6VBvhN5 zC13nINnNuGBaWRBAd/v9yG9mJER8qw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE/W9qKmojI60JOhzOVKR0eXmLZvhr/nkbKJLGLqGGqUaFtBWhubx1OpC9S+/fjomSgiFilEA== X-Received: by 2002:a81:9246:0:b0:586:a684:e7b6 with SMTP id j67-20020a819246000000b00586a684e7b6mr1753488ywg.9.1694587243302; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 23:40:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.7.7.3] ([156.146.47.227]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bz1-20020a05690c084100b005773babc3cdsm443769ywb.83.2023.09.12.23.40.42 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 12 Sep 2023 23:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] last rites: sys-fs/eudev To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <7802203.lOV4Wx5bFT@kona> <92dfbb91650e4fe9c82268ccddf8b0ab.squirrel@ukinbox.ecrypt.net> <4270953.Sgy9Pd6rRy@pinacolada> <25616924cf66471fbd1075753551dffa.squirrel@ukinbox.ecrypt.net> <7B549F95-5EEA-4DD3-A046-AA6F2C7B6349@gentoo.org> <5aa46e8fd2c09e8d54c6a9ec71725529.squirrel@ukinbox.ecrypt.net> <5f5e1b74-5c33-7200-7b8b-6cb72f209010@gmail.com> From: Dale Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBGFSciYBEADcEGMyJBSuavKO/XKUVvgkxck7Nl8Iuu8N2lcnRji/rSKg5c1Acix1ll9i oW8JBCHwvn0+Xy60BvEsqcup3YSHw5STl/bR1ePEehtnYrg8FdjdS91+B805RfnKMm69rFVI wLSBHQrSG1yxHd8CloWoEdhmVtP24buajbh114bgXd9ahtpZrCVMrWdWYUg2mEXguGV5uNAh Rf8SWxDNc79w24JxsV34a8niMUYMjzWr0rafIbzk732X38vGjVMLo/2mMpkbp9mPp++LHoY+ 0Pet8zxxdXPJSCd475kza1AD+hhSyBZXB9yknYWgyY3cZe1rGmooJSi2KX4QxO7npwLThcO1 be6KKRkd35+Fi/a1BzVOHsZMiK/gcwxEFoMd27gir4ehaeHJfFXl+65w4hj0EsOZSxrJrm2C R50g5By2czSKP1bADEygFNpIJj51AR+wM88NImG2RPtlT2maYBzazvF05g65cdHXGp1C7W5P wwwKU2DgABB2t7N7z5A69LnryBRw4zUYDRRYLTYlBlYgg+xILm2c0OrBdxJgLJa7JE50Eo25 d3PFwt9J0gYvqy6sPFLl9So0sDg9zm0hKQtXOP5kgropUFGrNoJI+mjwF4rYLRBVzZwNAvlO OhEvHubBo3mEllv4x+FeptwXZxlk7gUsdqI8AxnFB8K9wi6FVQARAQABtBtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAk4EEwEIADgCGyMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AW IQQSG1h01ruv/WNXc3Q3RqOgiQH1GwUCYVJy8gAKCRA3RqOgiQH1G+waEACeTZCt77jnRAmQ AV7otKuZekDWiLi3Eig8tj5ZJiCNSYA/hIxzmexRP0GMqjitcXK1iGwWcvMzzvIq30GAjIfB 4BR38cnXbtBa6fNewiT7QaZe/Hn6yBRldXNQypzbHy+/o27bUEy+oX4rE7etUgEHQAjuw7xz XFWg4tH1/KJvsOVY5upnWc5LdxYhsuQ3dQD4b22GsK0pOBDfb9PiirYM8eGKvrVuq4E/c75z lDDFhINl18lNZ9D0ZFL3IkTjHsAAqFH9uhnnEB8CWdHbBewPEfRaOhBUYWZ3Q8uTkmDgZT8q D9jlvLEdw7Nh2ApdxoepnI/4D+ql2Gr4DtH7SEPydr5gcf1Qr/2bXRb1hAYnIVcbncs/Bm3Z bkRKPVWMfE3Fusa+p5hMzixk0YysMaTHlc7mYRYAEZGnPMXnmcCbetwARU7A0yz1M1kCMOAQ Lsz8KH5kv3cRenMB6SFfjND2JfAK61H5TtnPq3L8noS2ZykRYxq9Nm3X64O1tJojIKBoZFr8 AwYNCvqC6puUyGMuzHPh7jPof8glfrrEKIYUvNPGMDoVX3IGetxh/9l6NcxgFA4JGoR+LS3C zmeNrwlllAe3OEUfKoWVQ+pagpSdM+8hHolaSda4Ys66Z3fCR4ZvcTqfhTAVskpqdXa4isAk 7vTcXu3L499ttywEp7rJTbkCDQRhUnImARAAncUdVhmtRr59zqpTUppKroQYlzR0jv8oa7DG K4gakTAT2N7evnI9wpssmzyVk8VEiLzhnFQ/Ol3FRt6hZCXDJt0clyHOyTfvz/MNFttWuZTc mLpSvmRR6VRjAH+Tz3Eam2xUw3PGuH97BcXQ3NnX3msv1UDxtxxBu6e2YrdeOhrCUSgzokcJ 98ChUNy934cgepPybAI12lSWqVFQ1aG7jExZfiUk+333fPSDbpKoZbTW5YJLXbycmW/C1IWL qYQyNjRWKaGoJtUWFhhmNiOQct7n90aKivNVPavmN+UQ9LlMaINtf9T6XCzLfogCFsulDCDJ 0yNQLDTurHaB4E71xoctgXmLLq9z1RQ0W2XiVAAOZQj6K3+d0AOUjDhCQ2QW8dUSq0ckkZXV DKVJOGS8Nhf2eIWIqRnP3AcUiiaiFGqUaVUmUAZ6h/oJmgghEu/1S+pcuUKU5i69+XCZ3hH2 Jzwzbf7K+FAIkOhCfHncF8i1N1pk00pOVykNnqHTfFo3qFusHt0ZWgXVnnn4pYdXqZNoDhvF BRE5Vm4k/k96Pw8HRx6Os6eFSRrlqGzRgqsu86FekxusXB9UGv4lJhtU/J+8MRWsh22K718s DbQnABicGKFz1qQlWvcf59oTByhLINJCBt1WXl+TzJDXepr3QSkqmK41dO9Hob97C9dMiK8A EQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIAIbDBYhBBIbWHTWu6/9Y1dzdDdGo6CJAfUbBQJhUnLyAAoJEDdGo6CJ AfUbVHIQAKSWw620vPhR3A/njU2z77F3z/Jk+HTKdE3fIyWSWdkYN7CBFL0NguOMP30WZ+qE sJhZu7T5hf251MwQUUt27xlfnKYOmQs7CqONlXuXlGZI6WufrUjxNcVz+5gJsqvUWuuJWsgg sDmE92IBnfG/f81fPHWQyfr/SF4wYDMyoFp5xCCQpp1zB63iuFvvrhxBkEHzmbRtVDOhl0Xp BVEDR1w3QRACw9QJD/KM05Czv9JNQYlwinWO/OaQ9cMlUpKLgswUPg9IZ5vucxScfuAUA5uC B1jlAQ8ZPlVukBmbEv5RGOv+lpuEbA3YDMVtEeH4YMFbjt/+vH3Cr2vTbp5JlpByLburJEH0 WXZLUawEfUsZvVwpOuJK75vaa2HYXee+Cb3iCIzwfIfctdlqzUcbGRczlRNM59hpvj4z29Gh 3kAxVHItAYq54ikxQ9l4hQ8s9sLYPbX/WtcBxNX8crBSw0FLnmzGleVEtBHyqtt5CLzQNgrj GYWl1vKDUmRPw1CdZ1c+fMN9CY11jOM5B5ZnqZWfDeVYO2iJ5SuvTycChexCb8WYn1bdCBIo bBtga2RBXbVt4Mh9E4owsszefn51MwfjXxB20Fc5k3GU1AVpTCMs3ayYCzo0b2pvEvdjtDcA CYLEFPWgaFX9iQAM/CDfKvTtvgGWpqtCL2raq/mQoJEU Message-ID: <9b6b698c-a168-316f-8b23-63a34c91db30@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2023 01:40:41 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/91.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.17 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 210396de-7f88-42f9-9e81-fba02d6f0148 X-Archives-Hash: ae65d6cbcc9dc412a6ebe98bc66a18bd Alexe Stefan wrote: > > While my posts may be a little bit inflammatory, no one pointed out > where I'm wrong. > I don't hate gentoo, but I don't want choice to be taken away from users. > If we(the users) only respond to issues that individually impact us, > choice will be taken away from everyone eventually(unless it's the > "right" choice as agreed by Lennart & co). It is called "divide and > conquer". > I do not hate gentoo. I want to see it offer as much choice as > possible, not restrict it. > I had to bear with systemd for some time before going to gentoo. I > don't want that to happen again. > > I'm a eudev user.  I don't like systemd either.  I'm actually having to deal with it for the first time after installing Ubuntu for a NAS box on a under powered rig with not a lot of memory.  I can honestly say, I don't like systemd from experience.  I'm one who will likely have to switch to udev even tho I don't care too.  While I'm not excited about it, given the lack of coders wanting to keep it alive, I'll just have to switch.  I may be losing a choice but hey, at least I had one that other distros never had.  Some distros switched with no alternative long ago.  If I, someone who hates change, can change, I'm not sure why you can't accept that eudev just may have reached its end of life on Gentoo.  I missed the news item a year or so ago.  I had no idea it was not being maintained on Gentoo.  This sort of hit me all at once, most likely the same as you.  Unless someone steps up in the next week or so, I'll be switching.  At the least, I'm grateful to have OpenRC.  Don't get me started on trying to figure out how to restart a service on Ubuntu.  As bad as all the compiling is, Gentoo is a walk in the park.  Restart a service, /etc/init.d/.  Try that in Ubuntu.  Forget a hair cut this month.  I'm doing good to have hair.  :@  Let's see what happens and if eudev dies, let's accept it and be grateful for the time we did have a choice, while some kinks got worked out of systemd udev at least.  To the other devs reading this thread still.  Thanks much from a 20 year user of Gentoo.  It was bumpy at first but it sure has come a LOOOOOOOONG ways.  I can't say enough about how much emerge has improved and how dependencies are resolved with ease for us users.  The work on the emerge command and ebuilds has improved a LOT.  I still wish the error output was more friendly but hey, at least there is a whole lot less of it.  :-D  Let's deal with what is in front of us.  Thanks again to the devs.  Dale :-)  :-)  I'm going back to my hole now.