From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0015B158083 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2024 02:42:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E886EE29A8; Sun, 15 Sep 2024 02:42:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (mail.gentoo.org [IPv6:2001:470:ea4a:1:5054:ff:fec7:86e4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE404E29A4 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2024 02:42:20 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <943f3418-0d7b-4e35-8d59-d33dee8d63d7@gentoo.org> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2024 22:42:16 -0400 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] profiles: desktop: Add "wayland" to make.defaults To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <4923407.GXAFRqVoOG@tuxbrain.fritz.box> Content-Language: en-US From: Eli Schwartz Autocrypt: addr=eschwartz@gentoo.org; keydata= xjMEZmeRNBYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAYNZ7pUDWhx1i2f3p6L2ZLu4FcY18UoeGC04Gq/khqwfN I0VsaSBTY2h3YXJ0eiA8ZXNjaHdhcnR6QGdlbnRvby5vcmc+wpYEExYKAD4WIQTvUdMIsc4j CIi+DYTqQj6ToWND8QUCZoRL+gIbAwUJBKKGAAULCQgHAwUVCgkICwUWAgMBAAIeBQIXgAAK CRDqQj6ToWND8aB5AP9r4kB691nNtNwKkdRiOdl7/k6WYzokvHvDamXxRJ0I+gEAjZqR5V8y mfR3fy2Z+r2Joeqdt3CIv5IwPs64spBvigLOOARmZ5E0EgorBgEEAZdVAQUBAQdATT46Z06b 1X9xjXFCYFxmq/Tj3tSEKZInDWTpoHQp4l8DAQgHwn4EGBYKACYWIQTvUdMIsc4jCIi+DYTq Qj6ToWND8QUCZmeRNAIbDAUJBKKGAAAKCRDqQj6ToWND8a2RAP40KPfbfoiZAJW5boFmFJ3G TUBDJRh9CWHyaPqq2PN+0wD/R07oLzfnJUN209mzi9TuTuHjeZybysyqXSw4MAxkMAY= In-Reply-To: <4923407.GXAFRqVoOG@tuxbrain.fritz.box> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------ijzEsOw1cnpMX2ceA0Qia0rD" X-Archives-Salt: 44a9af7a-783a-40dc-8e1d-8591ef3d848f X-Archives-Hash: 34e9bb763b2374a6fd223b449a4fc068 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------ijzEsOw1cnpMX2ceA0Qia0rD Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------dxEttpKANzYOvY2GabZO6Cg9"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eli Schwartz To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <943f3418-0d7b-4e35-8d59-d33dee8d63d7@gentoo.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] profiles: desktop: Add "wayland" to make.defaults References: <4923407.GXAFRqVoOG@tuxbrain.fritz.box> In-Reply-To: <4923407.GXAFRqVoOG@tuxbrain.fritz.box> --------------dxEttpKANzYOvY2GabZO6Cg9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 9/14/24 6:23 AM, Andreas Sturmlechner wrote: > 1) overall small impact on binary size, no runtime implications for X u= sers > 2) desktop profile definition is "minimal" USE flags, not necessarily "= legacy" > 3) plenty of "minimal" gui-wm/* exist, so X WMs can't claim that space > 4) KWin is not just used with Plasma, but also as LXQt default, and bot= h=20 > Plasma as well as Gnome have plenty of desktop profile users for some r= eason=20 > (mostly no-multilib of course ...) I suppose it is technically "minimal" to have either one or the other but not both... Which one deserves to be the "minimal default"? That is a harder question to answer. But at least selectively there's a reason to have various packages such as toolkits default to X support for ABI reasons (this argument can of course be made for wayland too) and there's a surprising amount of software out there that is X11-specific from the days when it was less common to use generic toolkits such as Gtk / Qt, which I guess leads us to: xwayland. Anyway, I'll just add -wayland to make.conf to stem the flood, I suppose. My DE is hardly "minimal" but it is certainly X-only. Perhaps what we really need is an easier way to handle custom user profiles via mixins, so that e.g. people who use lxqt don't have to beg for a dedicated official profile. > 5) deduplication++ At least this could be handled by making a profiles/targets/desktop/wayland and having both plasma and gnome parent themselves to that? It's not really much of an argument, even if it is only added on to 4 other arguments, to talk about deduplication as a reason to modify end-user experiences. The arguments for end-user experiences should relate to solving end-user problems, which is what points 1-4 argue based on. Internal implementation details should remain internal implementation details, and it seems we do (happily) have the technology to make them stay that way. --=20 Eli Schwartz --------------dxEttpKANzYOvY2GabZO6Cg9-- --------------ijzEsOw1cnpMX2ceA0Qia0rD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wnsEABYIACMWIQTnFNnmK0TPZHnXm3qEp9ErcA0vVwUCZuZJiAUDAAAAAAAKCRCEp9ErcA0vV5eE AQClYmJKHC6pDEDpWnaGBIW3a4Z50n9QOMvW8Dr+8ipRrwEA2qGrNgQQOBYw6GpkkVy/0LKkJQ/g /sHXfUjLClnCbAk= =qLnI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------ijzEsOw1cnpMX2ceA0Qia0rD--