From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K2HId-0003VO-Ug for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sat, 31 May 2008 02:58:32 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1AA10E0432; Sat, 31 May 2008 02:58:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ti-out-0910.google.com (ti-out-0910.google.com [209.85.142.185]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45932E0432 for ; Sat, 31 May 2008 02:58:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ti-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id u5so79656tia.10 for ; Fri, 30 May 2008 19:58:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=gegqNtUXDS158B+ux6HvEzYz/ET3FECy0haGKdAWt+A=; b=ZgQ4kJK5XjKXOpUK7KQmpjOytP135JsITaK3YX/xUnZsghOZlNbhy7Z6IxghsUR4G57aZRBYcaxaS6lwXSmKmXzCgrdBJ3Q33sN+0qzfIpehhR/NhhLZGA7gkbLVp/Q+LLCaN9WA9ndNRUOkAXzc4yExdLUKemjyaAffb8U0Wu0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=VUlbGL5JqjwwDiFG7LKD34pXQyL4nc3vyT08N/427OZnYh8XHe2RA1nOQp6W+n2mpY67FRCpDpc7BMfEx11GJmCjIGnVhK/SplxXu4rxKPMO8eBS3ckcKbUucdsvmkAUAoHx287DGAzzk4PcYuIOKgWf8ENyz8j3z+oD5/1Ed6k= Received: by 10.110.7.18 with SMTP id 18mr826035tig.32.1212202707867; Fri, 30 May 2008 19:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.110.41.4 with HTTP; Fri, 30 May 2008 19:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8b4c83ad0805301958x6ea98788l77983b10756f0da4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 08:28:27 +0530 From: "Nirbheek Chauhan" To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: --as-needed to default LDFLAGS (Was: RFC: Should preserve-libs be enabled by default?) In-Reply-To: <20080531033319.02d42034@snowcone> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20080530220743.GH17201@comet> <20080531013016.4aceedbb@snowcone> <4840A3EE.30708@gentoo.org> <20080531021748.4dd0b78e@snowcone> <20080531014356.GB6931@seldon.metaweb.com> <20080531025020.7d7da9d7@snowcone> <8b4c83ad0805301908sec8a9dale54c1696b5a0dccc@mail.gmail.com> <20080531031432.24169d4c@snowcone> <8b4c83ad0805301923v73ee15eds92d525f97a0e2c4b@mail.gmail.com> <20080531033319.02d42034@snowcone> X-Archives-Salt: 366e7a85-35b9-4f81-a18b-d88a55d35c7c X-Archives-Hash: 4211dc4054de30f2ff52f6f8a2e2466e On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 8:03 AM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: >> Once again, you do not support your argument with anything but your >> own word. Don't make me choke on the salt please :) > > Uhm. You're suggesting that the underlying issue is not a libtool > problem? Or you're suggesting that as-needed fixes the libtool bug? > Which basic fact that everyone discussing this should already know are > you disputing? I'm disputing your claim that fixing libtool is the correct solution *right now*, and that it's sanely doable in a reasonable time-frame. The former has been questioned by pretty much everyone else in the thread, and the latter is probably false since you don't just do it yourself. > >> Once again, rhetoric and insults without logic or reason. We all know >> you know that you need facts to convince people, but you're not >> providing any facts. One can only conclude that your purpose is not to >> convince. I honestly am baffled what purpose you have in mind. > > I expect people to do their homework and understand what we're > discussing. Do you expect me to start every post by explain what a > linker is? EDOESNOTMAKESENSE You said "[...]plenty of people are quite happy to jump in and yell when they don't have the slightest clue what the root problem is[...]" I replied saying that the paragraph was full of "rhetoric and insults without logic or reason". The latter part of the post is purely about how you're doing the same even where you should be talking with facts. Your reply seriously does not make sense to me. > >> > And unfortunately, it looks like those people are the ones that're >> > going to be making the decisions. >> >> Excellent, then you are free to point and laugh when we trip and fall. >> In the meantime, if you truly think everyone is making the wrong >> decision, talk with some facts and/or statistics. > > Fact: the underlying issue is a libtool bug. Fact: It can't be fixed easily and/or in a reasonable time-frame. Else someone would've done it -- heck you could've fixed it. > > Fact: as-needed does not fix this bug. It attempts to work around it. Fact: It works. Unlike your vapour-proposal to "fix libtool". > > Fact: as-needed breaks standard-compliant code. Fact: Breakages are rare, code which causes it is discouraged anyway, and is fixable in any case. We're not a standards organisation. > > Fact: fixing the libtool bug would give all the benefits purportedly > given by using as-needed, without the drawbacks. Fact: It hasn't been done forever, and won't be done anytime soon. > > It's quite simple, and if there're any of the above that you didn't > already know then why are you wasting everyone else's time discussing > things in this thread without doing some basic research first? It's quite simple, and you already knew all of the above, so why are you wasting everyone's time and energy discussing these things in this thread? Quite refreshing, seeing you type out your points in a clear manner for clearer rebuttal. I am going to assume that the matter is settled now. -- ~Nirbheek Chauhan -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list